Houston’s Astroworld Fest BREAKS RECORD (Dallas, San Antonio: lawyer, costs, education)

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

What makes me distrust satanists the least is when they say "oh that's not us" even though we have so much evidence of satanists practicing negative/evil things, sacrificing people, using demonic imagery, etc.



Do you think you would see this kind of thing at a Christian concert for example? I don't think so.

To your first sentence, can you point to a religion where people say "thats not us" and it truly isnt across the board? It certainly isnt Christianity of Islam. We have hundreds of years of proof of that. Slavery, wars, subjugation of people all in the name of God. Then the "thats not real Christianity/Islam" crowd steps in. Ok, but I can point to multiple things in the Bible and Hadiths that say those things are a-ok. Not just the old testament either.

I can easily pull out tons of evidence of Christians doing evil things too. The difference is that whether were talking about the Church of Satan or Satanic Temple there is NOT ONE thing that condones it. The Bible condones all kids of evil things in the name of a blood thirsty God.

For reference Im Satanic Temple, though Im involved with the Church of Satan in Houston as well. I dont really care as much for the Church of Satan for the same reason I dont care for a lot of modern day hip hop: they preach self worship. The Satanic Temple is much more about empathy for people and respect for all creatures.

This all said, just as with any religion or philosophy, there are break away sects that take things extreme.

[houston-nomad]

My two kids had two pretty different experiences at the show. One was stuck in a tight crowd, really stressed, had his wallet stolen, and left just before 10, in something of an anxiety attack from it all. The other was further back, had a great time. They both exited safely, even though finding them and getting them home afterwards was somewhat traumatic, due to the chaos and closed streets outside.

But-- they both exited safely. I can't help wondering if that would have been different if the show had been suddenly canceled. I just don't know. It was such a tragedy and it's really hard to process. It's impossible to know the "what ifs". I do know that you can't generalize about the crowd, though. Like I said, my kids had two totally different experiences, based on who they are and where they were in the crowd. There were bad apples, there were good apples. Some of the comments I've seen about the "crowd" seem tinged with unstated racism.

[As Above So Below...]

I dont look at this as a complex situation. Security was lax, the promoter didnt properly prepare, and the talent didnt seem to grasp what was going on until it was too late. The crowd was raucous, but that should have been expected. I do not know much about rap and hip hop festivals but Ive been to quite a few black and death metal festivals and these things are adequately prepared for.

As for Occultism, thats a real hard sell with me because Ive been to quite a few concerts from bands that are openly occultist and nothing has ever come close to what happened. There were plenty enough people at those for it to have occurred if it were desired as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv4tEUqKAeI

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

My two kids had two pretty different experiences at the show. One was stuck in a tight crowd, really stressed, had his wallet stolen, and left just before 10, in something of an anxiety attack from it all. The other was further back, had a great time. They both exited safely, even though finding them and getting them home afterwards was somewhat traumatic, due to the chaos and closed streets outside.

But-- they both exited safely. I can't help wondering if that would have been different if the show had been suddenly canceled. I just don't know. It was such a tragedy and it's really hard to process. It's impossible to know the "what ifs". I do know that you can't generalize about the crowd, though. Like I said, my kids had two totally different experiences, based on who they are and where they were in the crowd. There were bad apples, there were good apples. Some of the comments I've seen about the "crowd" seem tinged with unstated racism.

The crowd wasn’t even remotely close to being majority black. As a matter of a fact, it was a very healthy mix of every culture you can think of and people from all across the country. Asians seemed to be almost as present as blacks despite them being a much smaller percentage of the country and city. People who stereotype the crowd and say “that’s what happens when black folks crowd”, they’re as educated on the festival as some of the guys in here.

I would also say the “crazy lit hip hop fan” stereotype is mostly targeted towards white people.

[houston-nomad]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

The crowd wasn’t even remotely close to being majority black. As a matter of a fact, it was a very healthy mix of every culture you can think of and people from all across the country. Asians seemed to be almost as present as blacks despite them being a much smaller percentage of the country and city. People who stereotype the crowd and say “that’s what happens when black folks crowd”, they’re as educated on the festival as some of the guys in here.

yes, exactly!

[Raider Scott]

Didn't I say...in another thread...that America does not have a race problem - we have a culture problem?


This is your example of bad culture...and it really goes beyond skin color.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by Raider Scott

Didn't I say...in another thread...that America does not have a race problem - we have a culture problem?


This is your example of bad culture...and it really goes beyond skin color.

2021 post of the year

Yes, there’s racial issues
But most of the time, that has been use to “divide and conquer”

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by Raider Scott

Didn't I say...in another thread...that America does not have a race problem - we have a culture problem?


This is your example of bad culture...and it really goes beyond skin color.

Thats the only thing I've seen implied that it's a culture problem. Zoomers were on full display. This post sums it up perfectly from another forum:

Originally Posted by Current 2021 Zoomer Culture

I have been trying to determine why this event is creating so much attention and obsession in people who didn't attend when other events had even more deaths in the past for the same reasons. Of course we've never had it filmed to this degree, but there is more to it.

Loss of life is very serious -- but additionally -- this was the first time zoomers / gen z got a chance to see their own reflection. They saw the end-result of what happens when everyone is always self-interested; nihilistic; 'for the gram/snap/tok' -- they saw what happened when you try to ask for help to a crowd of indifference.

They felt what it felt like to literally drown in a sea of oversaturation. They heard how much empathy extreme, bass-centric, ego>all-oriented music has in times of crisis. They saw what all the over-stimulation and lights do when you just need a moment of calm.

And we all got to see it in HD, high-res videos posted the next day. Every bystander's perspective another reflection.

I think this is hitting so hard because, like it or not, this is what we are as a culture. I think it's the first time we've had self-awareness to see it for ourselves.

I love and make Hip Hop -- I just want to point this out.

[Raider Scott]

Originally Posted by Dopo

2021 post of the year

Yes, there’s racial issues
But most of the time, that has been use to “divide and conquer”

Several bad things collided that day.


Yes, a culture of self-involved "anything goes" people, mixed with very poor large crowd control procedures by a company that SHOULD know better and an artist that made no attempts to quell or stop the show while the mayhem went on.


My guess is that this festival has seen its last year.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

This is a topic people are talking about. If you follow hip hop more closely you’d see a group of fan bases are more passionate and wild. Travis is one of them. And directly welcomes breaking down fences (tweets now deleted)

For your last paragraph, there’s been a few other cases. Such as the Pearl Jam incident. And of course Woodstock but their overall problems were much larger than just crowding/stampeding so that one is grouped differently.

I just looked it up The Pearl Jam incident..............that occurred in Europe and Eddie Vedder stopped the show at least temporarily and asked people to back up. That was also 30 years ago.


I'd don't follow hip hop really at all. No question the genre sports a number of very talented people and some great songs but it's not my thing.


Woodstock is associated with two deaths......an accidental insulin overdose and a guy run over by a tractor.


I think you are referring to The Rolling Stone's Altamont Festival in 1969. No one was crushed or trampled by the crowd there either.


___________

Passionate and wild does not excuse mob behavior causing death.

Worse still, in a narrow sense anyway, is the idea that some of the crowd were so disconnected from reasonable behavior pausing the show would have induced a riot.