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How many Americans have you heard brag about being able to attend a soccer game in Chicago/SF/NYC/Boston/ New Orleans city core?
I’m sorry but the dynamos are not as big of an attraction to the everyday average Houstonian or tourist coming into Houston. That’s specific to that demographic.
But what are some things that appeal to the general consensus? Amenities/ walkability/ connectivity and vibrancy.
Both Houston and Dallas have amenities in their core. I wouldn’t consider either city to be world class but both have amenities that can appeal to the general public. Next is walkability. Which cities core has more walkable neighborhoods of interest. Well that goes to Dallas. Connectivity and vibrancy. Houston has pockets of vibrancy all throughout the inner loop. The lack of walkable neighborhoods makes it difficult to have connectivity and consistent vibrancy.
I’ll also agree w/ R1070 and say the new AT&T discovery and Farmers Market in Dallas add a little something that’s reminiscent of more tourist and local friendly attractions in more popular cities than what you find in Houston. And that’s simply because these things are much more pedestrian friendly.
Again, by this logic, most of these things don’t matter. The average person doesn’t walk into a Prada store but having it there is beneficial . Most people find museums boring. Most people don’t have the privileged to attend an elite school. All of these are specific demographics but they’re pluses regardless. I don’t care about many things that exists but I understand their impact on the city and their economy. I hate soccer myself but they contribute a lot more to the daily economy than most “attractions”.
I’m not going to list it out, but there’s specifics that you may find better wherever you are or things that are undoubtedly ahead in one or the other. Houston’s ethnic offerings/Asian enclaves have no equivalent in Dallas nor does Houston have a farmers market to the level of Dallas. Asian enclaves are more tourist friendly farmers markets speaking of that (hence why someone has an ongoing thread of this). Dallas doesn’t have a Rice University equivalent, Houston doesn’t have an NHL team.
Speaking of this, your post mentions “Houston does have better museums, but Dallas also has museums”… great. Again, this can be flipped for the tiny percent of tourists that check out farmers markets abroad. While there’s a few tourist friendly things that are specific to Houston or Dallas (Houston Chinatown/Dallas Stars), everything here goes back to preference.
How many Americans have you heard brag about being able to attend a soccer game in Chicago/SF/NYC/Boston/ New Orleans city core?
I’m sorry but the dynamos are not as big of an attraction to the everyday average Houstonian or tourist coming into Houston. That’s specific to that demographic.
But what are some things that appeal to the general consensus? Amenities/ walkability/ connectivity and vibrancy.
Both Houston and Dallas have amenities in their core. I wouldn’t consider either city to be world class but both have amenities that can appeal to the general public. Next is walkability. Which cities core has more walkable neighborhoods of interest. Well that goes to Dallas. Connectivity and vibrancy. Houston has pockets of vibrancy all throughout the inner loop. The lack of walkable neighborhoods makes it difficult to have connectivity and consistent vibrancy.
I’ll also agree w/ R1070 and say the new AT&T discovery and Farmers Market in Dallas add a little something that’s reminiscent of more tourist and local friendly attractions in more popular cities than what you find in Houston. And that’s simply because these things are much more pedestrian friendly.
This is pretty much spot-on about walkability of downtown Dallas. Their core just feels more pedestrian-friendly.
Also, I wouldn't say Deep Ellum is part of DTD, but I like how connected it feels to downtown. And Houston has no answer to Deep Ellum.
You can compare the connectivity, vibrancy, and walkability of both cities by checking out those dashcam-style high-resolution driving videos below.
You can easily tell there's more people and vibrancy going on in downtown Dallas versus Houston.
Not to mention downtown Dallas has its own Youtube channel (link to the channel: https://youtube.com/c/Downtowndallas) and actually cares about making improvements and looks forward to creating more parks and entertainment districts like AT&T Discovery District.
Again, by this logic, most of these things don’t matter. The average person doesn’t walk into a Prada store but having it there is beneficial . Most people find museums boring. Most people don’t have the privileged to attend an elite school. All of these are specific demographics but they’re pluses regardless. I don’t care about many things that exists but I understand their impact on the city and their economy. I hate soccer myself but they contribute a lot more to the daily economy than most “attractions”.
I’m not going to list it out, but there’s specifics that you may find better wherever you are or things that are undoubtedly ahead in one or the other. Houston’s ethnic offerings/Asian enclaves have no equivalent in Dallas nor does Houston have a farmers market to the level of Dallas. Asian enclaves are more tourist friendly farmers markets speaking of that (hence why someone has an ongoing thread of this). Dallas doesn’t have a Rice University equivalent, Houston doesn’t have an NHL team.
Speaking of this, your post mentions “Houston does have better museums, but Dallas also has museums”… great. Again, this can be flipped for the tiny percent of tourists that check out farmers markets abroad. While there’s a few tourist friendly things that are specific to Houston or Dallas (Houston Chinatown/Dallas Stars), everything here goes back to preference.
In the grander scheme of things, I don't think having access to soccer games matter as much to the common resident. The most popular cities in our county don't have a soccer stadium in their core. Any sporting event and especially soccer have little to do with peoples daily routine in a urban setting. Which is why I said a combination of amenities/ walkable neighborhoods/ vibrancy and connectivity play more of a role in a persons cultural urban experience than watching a game. Which is why I feel as though Dallas has a little more to offer than Houston in that category.
Now you bring up Houston's Asian enclaves. Yes Dallas doesn't have a match for that. Also in typical Houston fashion, those Asian enclaves are often far away from most of Houston's tourist attractions. You have to hop in your car and go visit the strip malls that make up the Asian enclaves. And for the record Houston's Asian enclaves are a pretty dope experience but because of the suburban infrastructure it lacks vibrancy compared to cities like Boston/NYC/Chicago/SF/LA/Philly when it comes to those Asian enclaves. Which proves my point. Houston is still so car centric and it's hard to function without even in the most dense areas(outside of DT Houston).
Even though Houston's Asian community was small in what is now Eado and in Midtown it was still something they could have built upon. Instead Houston completely erased any semblance of what use to be an Asian culture in the loop and now all you have is a few Asian owned businesses left in the loop. You'll miss them if you blink.
You can easily tell there's more people and vibrancy going on in downtown Dallas versus Houston.
Not to mention downtown Dallas has its own Youtube channel (link to the channel: https://youtube.com/c/Downtowndallas) and actually cares about making improvements and looks forward to creating more parks and entertainment districts like AT&T Discovery District.
Downtown Houston’s YouTube channel has more followers than Downtown Dallas. Same as IG. As nice as discovery is, it doesn’t draw as many visitors as Discovery Green/Avenida. It’s also newer so that could have something to do with it.
Where Dallas exceeds over Houston is connecting and filling the gaps in between districts.
In the grander scheme of things, I don't think having access to soccer games matter as much to the common resident. The most popular cities in our county don't have a soccer stadium in their core. Any sporting event and especially soccer have little to do with peoples daily routine in a urban setting. Which is why I said a combination of amenities/ walkable neighborhoods/ vibrancy and connectivity play more of a role in a persons cultural urban experience than watching a game. Which is why I feel as though Dallas has a little more to offer than Houston in that category.
Now you bring up Houston's Asian enclaves. Yes Dallas doesn't have a match for that. Also in typical Houston fashion, those Asian enclaves are often far away from most of Houston's tourist attractions. You have to hop in your car and go visit the strip malls that make up the Asian enclaves. And for the record Houston's Asian enclaves are a pretty dope experience but because of the suburban infrastructure it lacks vibrancy compared to cities like Boston/NYC/Chicago/SF/LA/Philly when it comes to those Asian enclaves. Which proves my point. Houston is still so car centric and it's hard to function without even in the most dense areas(outside of DT Houston).
Even though Houston's Asian community was small in what is now Eado and in Midtown it was still something they could have built upon. Instead Houston completely erased any semblance of what use to be an Asian culture in the loop and now all you have is a few Asian owned businesses left in the loop. You'll miss them if you blink.
Again, neither do museums, Prada stores, nightclubs etc. They’re all for a specific group of people. This argument qualifies for most attractions. I would agree with what you’re saying if you didn’t hold it specific to soccer games. I don’t care about them. I’m not a soccer guy. But plenty of them exist. No
You’re going in circles here. How far do the cowboys (what’s supposed to be one of the main attractions) play from downtown Dallas? How far are the FW stockyards? You can’t say with a straight face that DFW’s tourist attractions are all centrally located. Both metros have their attractions scattered far away from each other, DFW more so than Houston.
You can easily tell there's more people and vibrancy going on in downtown Dallas versus Houston.
Not to mention downtown Dallas has its own Youtube channel (link to the channel: https://youtube.com/c/Downtowndallas) and actually cares about making improvements and looks forward to creating more parks and entertainment districts like AT&T Discovery District.
You're kidding, right??
Sorry to say, those videos did more to HURT your case than help it.
For one, you showed the videos at different times of day...Dallas at night and Houston during the day. I think you did that on purpose.
Secondly, you actually proved just how much better Houston's downtown looks compared to Dallas'. Dallas' downtown looks rather sparse with a lot of gaps...doesn't look very cohesive. Houston's downtown looks FAR more cohesive, with walls of building built close together with some degree of consistency. And to be perfectly honest, the walkability shown in these particular videos don't look much (if any) different from each other. Are we looking at the same videos??
Again, neither do museums, Prada stores, nightclubs etc. They’re all for a specific group of people. This argument qualifies for most attractions. I would agree with what you’re saying if you didn’t hold it specific to soccer games. I don’t care about them. I’m not a soccer guy. But plenty of them exist. No
You’re going in circles here. How far do the cowboys (what’s supposed to be one of the main attractions) play from downtown Dallas? How far are the FW stockyards? You can’t say with a straight face that DFW’s tourist attractions are all centrally located. Both metros have their attractions scattered far away from each other, DFW more so than Houston.
You're talking to a brick wall, lol. No matter how many times you say it doesn't matter, he's convinced that the average city-dweller cares more a about Prada store than a soccer stadium. Let it go.
You can easily tell there's more people and vibrancy going on in downtown Dallas versus Houston.
Not to mention downtown Dallas has its own Youtube channel (link to the channel: https://youtube.com/c/Downtowndallas) and actually cares about making improvements and looks forward to creating more parks and entertainment districts like AT&T Discovery District.
I've never found Downtown Dallas to be more vibrant than Downtown Houston, at least the parts of Downtown Houston that are vibrant. There are definitely large parts of either one that are dead zones after 5:30 pm. Houston's lower Main St. / Historic District is very active on many nights, and the east side of Downtown was utterly transformed with Discovery Green and the convention / tourism infrastructure built around it. It would help Dallas if its West End had the same vibrancy it had back in the 1980s-90s.
You also seem ignorant of the massive efforts that have already taken place in Downtown Houston to improve its walkability and vibrancy. I already mentioned Discovery Green, a huge game changer and major attraction. Plus in the 2000s probably over half of the pedestrian areas in Downtown were rebuilt and improved. To claim that Houston hasn't been putting in the effort is ludicrous.
Again, neither do museums, Prada stores, nightclubs etc. They’re all for a specific group of people. This argument qualifies for most attractions. I would agree with what you’re saying if you didn’t hold it specific to soccer games. I don’t care about them. I’m not a soccer guy. But plenty of them exist. No
You’re going in circles here. How far do the cowboys (what’s supposed to be one of the main attractions) play from downtown Dallas? How far are the FW stockyards? You can’t say with a straight face that DFW’s tourist attractions are all centrally located. Both metros have their attractions scattered far away from each other, DFW more so than Houston.
I'm not even singling out museums or high end stores at this point. It's pretty general in what the average American looks for in a cities core. Mind you I didn't bring up soccer games. That was Clutch's argument why he leans inner Houston over inner Dallas. And I can respect that. I'm just stating on a general level inner Dallas has plenty appeal and plenty to do where one wouldn't have to leave the core of the city than Houstonian's think. I don't think inner Dallas core pales in comparison to inner Houston at all. I'm starting to think some Houstonians feel this way because they know the inner loop and communities close to it is Houston's biggest strength where DFW has strengths all over their metro. Contrary to popular belief Plano's success doesn't take away from the city of Dallas despite what some think. It only adds to the metroplex.
And I thought we we're talking about both cities cores not their metro anyway. Bottom line Dallas core can definitely hold it's own against Houston and many people prefer Dallas over Houston and vice versa. The amenities in Houston's core aren't worlds apart from what Dallas has to offer. If you were to live in both I don't think you'll miss much in either one. Still in the same tier. I just prefer Dallas connectivity and walkability more because it's closer in structure to the more popular urban cities that I prefer than Houston is.
Downtown Houston’s YouTube channel has more followers than Downtown Dallas. Same as IG. As nice as discovery is, it doesn’t draw as many visitors as Discovery Green/Avenida. It’s also newer so that could have something to do with it.
Where Dallas exceeds over Houston is connecting and filling the gaps in between districts.
I'll agree with the CONNECTIVITY part...but totally disagree with the INFILL part.
Starting with downtown Houston, you're a 5 minute drive west into Montrose...from there it's about a 2 minute drive into (further west) Greenway Plaza, or a 5 minute drive or train ride (South)to the Museum District. If you keep going West another 2 minutes (depending on traffic conditions) you'll head right into Uptown (Galleria). If you keep going South from the Museum District, you'll ride right by beautiful Hermann Park...which leads DIRECTLY into The Medical Center. This is ALL within about a 15-20 minute radius of each other...yet, since each of those districts has it's OWN skyline, you'd think you were in different parts of the city!
And this isn't even ALL of the Houston skyline...You still have the Energy Corridor, which is only a 10 minute ride from Uptown...and the Greenspoint area, which is (admittedly) much further away at about 30 minutes.
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