Counter Opinion - Illegal Alien Crime Problems Made Up By Some Leaders (immigrants, Mexico)
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This has to be a joke. Moral compass? I am sure I am not the first one to point out that consistently breaking county traffic laws results in losing one's privilege to drive. Illegal immigration? Breaking a federal law which results, or should result, in deportation. Except the illegals and their promoters are making a big stink about it being their RIGHT to be here in the US. Understand the difference now?
Just in case not, being illegal in the US is not a right or a privilege that can be given or lost. Rights and privileges as an American citizen are not or should be not afforded to illegals because, to put it real basic, they're not American citizens. It has nothing at all to do with which laws are broken. Illegals shouldn't even be on the radar. Everything they do here is breaking a law because they shouldn't even be here.
However, a major justification has to do with the ramp up in crime within Arizona. However, the reported stats (as current as we have them on this site) don't support the claimed ramp up.
If someone has vaid stats showing otherwise, it is always welcome in the discussion.
Unreported crimes could certainly alter the discussion, but then the question becomes how do they know this, and how is it different from historical kidnap rates?
The Arizona governor, seemingly determined to repel every last tourist dollar from her pariah state, has sounded a new alarm about border violence. “Our law enforcement agencies have found bodies in the desert either buried or just lying out there that have been beheaded,” she announced on local television.
Ay, caramba! Those dark-skinned foreigners are now severing the heads of fair-haired Americans? Maybe they’re also scalping them or shrinking them or putting them on a spike. There's not a follicle of evidence to support Brewer's claim.
“The Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s Office was notified and they took possession of the head on that same date. We suspect that the head may have been placed along side the trail as a warning to other drug and alien traffickers using the trail.”
A spokesman for Rep. Bishop told me they had confirmed the details of the incident described by Lowell.
Curious, I contacted Lowell and asked him if he was willing to talk to Milbank. Here’s what Lowell said:
“I would be happy to talk to Dana Milbank and, in fact, I would like to invite him to a picnic. We could walk a mile or so up Peck Canyon from the Atascosa Ranch headquarters past where the body was found, which is being autopsied to the place where five (or more) innocent Mexicans (who claim they had broken only a few Federal laws) were fired on about two weeks ago by gentlemen in black camo shooting AK 47’s,” he said.
Lowell added that “there’s been one other shooting incident seven days ago in about the same place. We will supply the weenies and potato salad but Dana will have to walk about 200 yards ahead.”
MEMO TO MILBANK: You're a head behind the facts on Arizona border decapitations (UPDATED!) | Washington Examiner (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/MEMO-TO-MILBANK-Youre-a-head-behind-the-facts-on-Arizona-violence-98148009.html - broken link)
Quote:
(PHOENIX) State police, members of Phoenix police and federal immigration agents busted two suspected drop houses in west Phoenix rescuing 13 people and arresting 15 suspected smugglers.
Police began moving on one drop house Sunday after ransom demands were issued.
A woman said captors held her boyfriend since June 26th and threatened to beat and behead him if they weren’t paid a $3,000 ransom.
Police found the drop house and arrested seven suspected human smugglers Monday. A second west Phoenix drop house found Monday led to 15 people.
Associated Press state and local wire, July 7, 2009
Quote:
After decades of anti-pot campaigns, from Reefer Madness to zero tolerance, so many Americans choose to smoke marijuana that the Mexican cartels have become an international threat to law and order.
Instead of paying taxes on their vice, pot smokers are enriching thugs and murderers.
“People who smoke pot in the United States don’t think they are connected to the cartels,” Brown says. “Actually, they are very connected.”
American drug users help sharpen the knives that cartel henchmen use to behead their enemies and terrorize Mexican border towns.
Did you miss the video on City-Data of a young woman who had successfully crossed the border just in time to have her baby in an American hospital who was commenting on video that she just did not understand why Americans don't want to pay her child.
No one is suggesting mass deportation. It would be impossible and impractical. But the wide open borders are ridiculous. I believe if the Arizona law is allowed to stand, many states follow suit because they just cannot afford the cost and they are sick of stepping aside while illegals pass by. That will finally force Congress to do something realistic with regard to immigration, and woe to the Congressperson who tries to ride the fence with regard to immigration.
I don't believe you or anyone realistically thinks we should just shove illegals in here without question. I don't handle my finances that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx
No one, not even the illegals think it is their right to be here. Where do you get such mis information?
Secondly, reality check. If the republicans controlled the house and the senate and the presidency, there would still never be a blanket deportation of illegals. There would be some kind of one on one determination of residency and path to citizenship for those who are here and do not have any criminal history. To implement a draconian system of mass deportation would be the death of any political party who actually tried to do so and the republicans know this. The repubs are playing to the base right now to gain political advantage. Once they are in power again amnesty will be the word of the day.
Did you miss the video on City-Data of a young woman who had successfully crossed the border just in time to have her baby in an American hospital who was commenting on video that she just did not understand why Americans don't want to pay her child.
No one is suggesting mass deportation. It would be impossible and impractical. But the wide open borders are ridiculous. I believe if the Arizona law is allowed to stand, many states follow suit because they just cannot afford the cost and they are sick of stepping aside while illegals pass by. That will finally force Congress to do something realistic with regard to immigration, and woe to the Congressperson who tries to ride the fence with regard to immigration.
I don't believe you or anyone realistically thinks we should just shove illegals in here without question. I don't handle my finances that way.
Overall, a good reasonable post on the subject. That women is not the poster child of the hispanic community. No more that the video of the black woman who said Obama was gonna pay for her rent was the poster child of the black community although some with an agenda would make it so. Now that you've stated that no one is for mass deportations then you and I are on the same page. The hispanic community in Arizona want the borders closed as tight as possible. They want the drug dealers and coyotes out of their neighborhoods as they know too well the damage they do to the community. Please see my previous post in this thread detailing the hispanic community's position on illegal immigration. Let's get past the misinformation and histrionics and agree to agree. We are on the same page.
In my opinion, this is simply part of the strategy to convince us that border crime has been contained. If we believe there is less crime in Border States, perhaps we will also believe we can now proceed to step 2: Comprehensive Immigration Reform (Amnesty). C’mon, would this be the first time we have been misled by government statistics?
I also do not believe the savagery of the drug cartels magically ends at the US-Mexico border. I’m sure most have read reports of the stronghold Mexican drug cartels now have in ALL of our major cities. Do we need to wait for machete attacks and decapitations to become routine before it’s considered a salient issue? In any case, even if “reported†crime at the border has declined, it still doesn’t mitigate the impact of massive illegal immigration.
Thank you best post, you said it best. Think i believe what is told to me. Haaaaaaaaaaa. I too believe that the strategy is to convince us little foks that the border crimes have been contained. Believing that we now move on to step 2 as Benicar says above. I have friends who live in Mexico, if you think this problem is solved, or is not being brought to our border problem states, think again, we don't here half of what is going on. Yes they are Mexicans living in Mexico, but they tell their friends in the states, exactly what is going on in some cities in Mexico. And it is not nice. Corrupt as you can get. Regardless what you may think, the massive impact of illegals in our Country, is in no way a benefit to anyone, more of an added expense that we do not need nor the crime.
Obviously you are one of those that believes illegal is illegal. Am I to assume that every time you go over the speed limit, you report yourself to the police and pay the fine?
The ever popular speeding analogy.
Actually a better analogy might be:
Entering someone elses house uninvited.
or for those who entered legally but over stay:
Invited to someones house but refuse to leave when asked to leave.
Illegals don't only commit the first crime of entering without a VISA, they compound their crime by committing many more in order to exist in this country illegally.
Of course the pro-illegale side might say well we can fix that by granting an amnesty. And of course they have a point.
The same point I might have if I said prisons are over populated and cost to much. To fix the problem we can grant a pardon to all behind bars.
Rewarding criminal behavior is never the answer, it will only encourage more of the same behavior. We have proof of this after the last amnesty.
I live near, and work with many hispanics here in Arizona. They are long time friends and neighbors. From what numerous hispanics have told me, they are for closing the borders as tight as possible. They are for deporting all illegal immigrants with criminal records. They would even willingly turn in the drug dealers and coyotes in their neighborhoods as they know the damage these people do to their community. They would accept the most stringent penalties for illegals as restitution for their coming here. One thing they will never accept though, is the rounding up and deporting of every illegal alien in the country which they themselves honestly estimate at 12-13 million. Currently, the hispanic community in Arizona in general, feel like they are being singled out and spotlighted for political reasons. On the one hand the republicans are targeting them with misinformation and inflamitory claims in an attempt to bring down the Obama administration and appeal to the republican base. On the other, the democrats are using them for political gain. Either way, they are caught in the middle and are pawns in a political game of epic proportions. This is the sad truth.
Bet those Hispanics would be singing a different tune about what to do with the majority of illegal aliens if they were mostly Chinese illegals. The Hispanic community are their own worse enemies when they oppose enforcement of our immigration laws against ALL illegal aliens instead of standing up for the rule of law. Our laws demand deportation of all illegal aliens not just the violent criminal and drug dealing kind. Hispanics make their own bad name for themselves when they don't take the side of their country's laws rather than illegal foreingers who just happen to be ethnically like themselves.
We should present this question to the family of the farmer who was murdered by illegal immigrants and see what their response is. No lack of respect intended since whether a family is robbed 8 times or 18 times, I guess it creates "stats."
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA
However, a major justification has to do with the ramp up in crime within Arizona. However, the reported stats (as current as we have them on this site) don't support the claimed ramp up.
If someone has vaid stats showing otherwise, it is always welcome in the discussion.
well said. this is why we need to elect people who will work to secure the borders first. once that happens we can deal with the illegals who are here now, and it can be done on a case by case basis. i doubt that every illegal alien can be rounded up and deported anyway.
Perhaps not but they can be encouraged to leave on their own by taking away all incentives to remain here.
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