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Usually someone who pushes for an open border:
A. Has one or more relatives here Illegally
B. Lives in one of the very few places left in the US not feeling the impact
C. Has some type of business that allows them to benefit from dirt cheap labor
What is amazing - I know even some illegals who are against massive and unlimited illegal immigration because even they are smart enough to understand it's all about cheap labor. This guy from Mexico thinks he should be here, but he's not really for open borders because like he said, a Mexican will work for less than an American but it has to be at least $5 an hour, but many Central Americans would do his same job for less than he will.
Many see it like Vicente Fox, they want "the whole enchilada", they want EVERYTHING the USA has to offer, they want the free education, the free health care, access to all the jobs, all the benefits. And it's sure a lot easier than working for reforms back home, working to improve their own country.
You'll note that the comments of mine you highlighted were in relation to "kick 'em all out." I've heard it proposed to use the military as a part of that, in addition to securing the border. It may not have been said here, on these boards, but it has been proposed. After all, who else BUT the military has the resources? Law enforcement? Only if they drop everything else they're doing in the meantime.
I don't mean to suggest that we can't do a better job of securing the border, though I will say categorically that it can't be "sealed," nor that we couldn't do a better job of enforcing the laws now and making this country a much less desireable place for illegals to come to. Of course we can and must. But, that won't solve the problem of those millions already here and that's the problem which is which this thread is about.
That's the problem for which we have few options. You may still believe that government can do anything it likes, but I don't. In any case, I don't think it can do that, nor am I convinced most of us would want it to when we see what all that entails. It's easy to blurt out an emotional reaction, but something far different when you get down to the nuts and bolts.
So why do we have our military in Iraq guarding it's borders?
And Mexico uses it's military to guard it's southern border and no one objects to that.
People always prefer emotionality when it comes to immigrants, especially in hard times. Historically, it's as predictable as the sunrise.
We're not talking about LEGAL immigrants. We're talking about ILLEGAL aliens. In other words, lawbreakers. Americans have always been opposed to lawbreaking, whether it's done by other Americans or by foreigners living in this country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit
Looking back across our 200+ years, we find that even Benjamin Franklin opposed immigration from Germany because he was convinced they couldn't assimilate. Later, it was the Irish who were ruining America because they'd turn it Papist. Then, it was the flood of immigrants from Southeast Europe who would do us in. In California, violence against Chinese was accepted because there were too many of them. In New York City, the draft riots in the 1860's quickly turned against free blacks. Today, it's hispanics. See? Nothing has changed. Each successive wave of immigrants were met with fear and apprehension, yet the nation not only survived, but prospered. It will this time too.
Those Germans, Irish, Chinese, and the people from southeast Europe weren't illegal aliens. What we're complaining about today is illegal immigration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit
Additionally, it is only the current influx of immigrants (legal or otherwise) which prevents the decline of our population. Native born women have roughly 1.9 children each, not enough to meet the replacement rate of 2.1. In other words, without all these foreigners here, the United States would be sliding down toward 2nd or 3rd world status in terms of population.
What? There is no such thing as 2nd or 3rd world status in terms of population. It doesn't even make sense because you just made it up. Canada's population today is about 34 million. So, do you think Canada has a 2nd or 3rd world status in terms of population (whatever that's supposed to mean)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit
Oddly, though the number of foreigners here has increased, the rate in the growth of crime statistics has actually fallen in recent years, so I guess that argument is out.
Wrong. Crime rates have fallen over the past 10-15 years despite both legal and illegal immigration because most states have passed tougher sentencing laws during this time span. "3-strikes" type laws have made it mandatory for courts to lock up dangerous criminals and career criminals for longer periods of incarceration. The more time that these criminals spend behind bars, the less time they're in our communities committing more crimes.
By the way, every illegal alien who is working, or has worked in the U.S. has committed one or more crimes which include: ID theft, document fraud, Social Security fraud, employment "I-9 Form" fraud, income tax evasion, and conspiracy to violate immigration laws. Add to this list the serious and violent crimes that many illegal aliens commit. So it's very easy to determine that illegal aliens aren't committing fewer crimes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit
So just what ARE people afraid of? How WILL they "ruin" America? I've got my own idea about what drives such fear, but I'd rather hear what everyone else has to say on the subject.
And I've got my own idea about what drives you to continually speak out in favor of illegal aliens, of which the vast majority are Latino.
So, all the panic has nothing to do with the immigrants themselves? Just the paperwork they may or may not have? It would fine with you if 20 million Hispanics came here, so long as they have the right documentation?
Illegal immigration entails more than just not having a certain piece of paperwork. Illegal immigration is lawbreaking, pure and simple. Illegal aliens have intentionally violated our immigration laws and bypassed the legal process to come to this country. To try and dumb it down by saying that illegal aliens just don't have a certain piece of paperwork, and that that's the only problem, is just being purposely ignorant and obtuse on your part.
As far as how many legal immigrants we need, it depends on our country's needs at any given time. I wouldn't want this country to have to absorb 20 million foreigners in a relatively short period of time, regardless of the foreigners' races or their countries of origin.
By the way, why do you keep proposing for Hispanics to come here, but not foreigners from other races?
I feel bad for the Anchor Babies due to their illegal alien parents' bad decisions. But, those children should not qualify for US citizenship to begin with.
And as several other posters pointed out: taking down the 'bird feeder' (benefits) is encouraging illegals to leave the USA
Good Evening,
Absolutely Correct ! ... It's well beyond the time when the American People should most resolutely demand that their so called "Career Politicians" in Washington D.C. do the jobs they were elected to do and legislate this "Illegal Alien Nightmare" out of existence !
The deplorable stigmata of "Illegal Alien Criminals" in the U.S. is in dire need of being effectively eliminated for the long term.
Only a strong and constant voter pressure upon the "Political Goof Troop " in Washington D.C. shall keep this enormously important issue on the "Legislative Plate" of both the Senate & Congress !
Not Qualifying as U.S. Citizens due to the utter lunacy of the "Illegal" parents is another great legislative angle to make America even less attractive to the Illega's whom are invading America from the extreme debacle known as our Souther Border !
America's "Nightmare Illegal Alien Incubus" is without a doubt one of the greatest threats to our beloved nation and as such deserves an immediate resolution !!!
So why do we have our military in Iraq guarding it's borders?
And Mexico uses it's military to guard it's southern border and no one objects to that.
It's not illegal for US forces to guard our border. Our military forces simply are not large enough to do both that and meet our other committments. Plus, there are restrictiong under the Posse Commitatus act which prevents them from being involved in some law enforcement actions.
Illegal immigration entails more than just not having a certain piece of paperwork. Illegal immigration is lawbreaking, pure and simple. Illegal aliens have intentionally violated our immigration laws and bypassed the legal process to come to this country. To try and dumb it down by saying that illegal aliens just don't have a certain piece of paperwork, and that that's the only problem, is just being purposely ignorant and obtuse on your part.
As far as how many legal immigrants we need, it depends on our country's needs at any given time. I wouldn't want this country to have to absorb 20 million foreigners in a relatively short period of time, regardless of the foreigners' races or their countries of origin.
By the way, why do you keep proposing for Hispanics to come here, but not foreigners from other races?
I'm not advocating Hispanic's to the exclusion of all others. What on earth gave you that idea?
By the way, have you ever researched just what it takes to become a legal citizen or how the whole process works? You might be suprised to find that we do not have quotas (except for an overall number), and certainly not racial or ethnic ones, and that applying for legal residence (except in the case of asylum) requires a permanent, legal residence here for a number of years before an application for naturalization can be submitted. (There are other qualifiers, but that's the gist of it.)
Naturalization begins with a legal resident permit and that's a whole other bureaucratic nightmare to navigate. It is very time consuming, intensely bureaucratic and expensive. For people desperate to change their circumstances, it's basically a no-go. If you want to solve the illegal immigration issue, streamlining the process for coming here legally is the best place to start because it is that bureaucratic nightmare which drives many to simply cross the border on their own.
But, you say...they could come here legally on a temporary work permit and that's true. But, that's not as easy as you may think.
For instance, let's say you're a Mexican living in Juarez who wants to do day labor in El Paso. The proceedure is that you line up on the bridge, with other applicants and work your way to an office where you get permission to come in and work for the day. That line is typically hours long and you must prove you have work waiting for you. After getting the required paperwork, you go enter another line to pass through customs. On a normal day, by the time you finish that, the work day is over and you've accomplished nothing more than standing in line. Once you've done that a couple of times and failed to actually work, what would you do? You'd do the same thing thousands do every day...wade the river and go to work. In order to feed your family, you'd become a "*******."
Thousands more come here to work on temporary work visas which are arranged by their new, American empolyer or the companies they hire to bring in cheap labor. When the come here, they are not citizens, but are legally here on a temporary permit which may be renewed annually, but only if the person returns to his native land and begins the process all over again. Many simply do not do that and continue on the job they were brought here for. At that point, they join the ranks of the illegals, but what would you do? Worse, if they would like to apply for citizenship, the temporary work visa (green card) does not allow them to be here long enough to meet the requirements for naturalization. They're caught in a bureaucratic never-never land not of their own devising, but one which they must navigate to support their families back home because the sad fact is that they can't support their families in their native lands.
So, see? It's not as simple as everyone thinks and, until the economic situation back home changes for the better, they'll continue to find ways to come here and that will be aided and abetted by American empolyers who want to maximize their profit by importing people who will work for less than the natives. So long as they have the political power to keep the system the way it is, there will be no solution to the illlegal problem.
The answer is not now, nor ever has been, going after the illegal workers themselves. That's treating the symptoms without addressing the underlying illness. But, it's emotionally gratifying and easier to do than reforming the system which virtually demands they come here illegally.
Bottom line here: since the USA is still a desirable place to compared to most of the rest of the world...........can can pick and choose whom we let in. If that enrages a bunch of illegals from Mexico/Central America-----------who cares? I certainly don't. Especially in this nasty recession.
It's not illegal for US forces to guard our border. Our military forces simply are not large enough to do both that and meet our other committments. Plus, there are restrictiong under the Posse Commitatus act which prevents them from being involved in some law enforcement actions.
The US Armed Forces are designed to protect the USA from outside threats---------being overrun by a bunch of losers from Mexico certainly qualifies as such.
Usually someone who pushes for an open border:
A. Has one or more relatives here Illegally
B. Lives in one of the very few places left in the US not feeling the impact
C. Has some type of business that allows them to benefit from dirt cheap labor
And/or D. A bleeding heart Lib; especially one consumed by White guilt who truly believes that we 'need' to return our Southwest to Mexico---------never mind that Mexico did the exact same thing to Spain a generation prior (1821)
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