Who is back in the office? (Boston, Worcester: place to live, train, relocation)

[simplexsimon]

Originally Posted by massnative71

These both apply.

If a tech company is hurting for talent, they'll be able to fill those roles by relocating to Nashua, NH?

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by simplexsimon

If a tech company is hurting for talent, they'll be able to fill those roles by relocating to Nashua, NH?

Absolutely. Think about all the tech workers currently living in that area, currently forced to commute to Boston/Cambridge or Burlington/Bedford/Waltham. I have no doubt many would even take a pay cut to get closer to home.

[msRB311]

I think the bottom line is that people hate the traffic, the long commute and the rent/housing prices. Not everyone can afford to LIVE in Boston or close to it. What is so hard to understand about that?

The companies will go where they want though. The workers are all at their mercy. Would it be helpful if they went somewhere else? For many people yes.

[simplexsimon]

Originally Posted by msRB311

I think the bottom line is that people hate the traffic, the long commute and the rent/housing prices. Not everyone can afford to LIVE in Boston or close to it. What is so hard to understand about that?

Not sure if you're talking to me, it's certainly easy to understand that people hate the commute. But I'm not convinced that a company can get all the best talent by moving away from the core. If a company moves from Boston to the NH border, it could be great for those that live by the NH border, but what about employees that live south of Boston? Are they that easily replaced by northern MA folks?

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by simplexsimon

Not sure if you're talking to me, it's certainly easy to understand that people hate the commute. But I'm not convinced that a company can get all the best talent by moving away from the core. If a company moves from Boston to the NH border, it could be great for those that live by the NH border, but what about employees that live south of Boston? Are they that easily replaced by northern MA folks?

I've mentioned before that it would also be great to see more offices in places like Braintree and Quincy.

[AtkinsonDan]

Originally Posted by simplexsimon

Not sure if you're talking to me, it's certainly easy to understand that people hate the commute. But I'm not convinced that a company can get all the best talent by moving away from the core. If a company moves from Boston to the NH border, it could be great for those that live by the NH border, but what about employees that live south of Boston? Are they that easily replaced by northern MA folks?

First it would be northern MA folks plus southern NH folks. Second if you look at population by county, there are more people living north of Boston than south of Boston. I believe Middlesex county is the most populous one in Massachusetts.

[id77]

Originally Posted by lrfox

It's not like this is a novel concept. Companies have tried it before with varying degrees of success. But the problem is that we often discuss it in the macro sense (Boston vs. Not Boston) and the reality is far more specific. The pros and cons of Boston are obvious and easy to list. We've done it in this thread and others a thousand times - big city amenities, concentration of talent, etc. vs. absurd cost of living, limited space/square footage, traffic, rough public transit, etc. But when we start talking about specific locations outside of Boston (which we haven't done as much), they have similar pros and cons.

If Big Tech, Inc. wants to open in Nashua, they're no longer just making the case against Boston, they have to also make the case for Nashua to potential employees. they can pitch the lower cost of living, less traffic, proximity to the outdoors, more space, lack of income tax, etc. But there are more limited rental options nearby, fewer entertainment options, more limited healthcare options, poorer public schools, etc. That's not as easy of a sell as simply, "Not Boston!." Some employees will certainly follow, but many will want to stick around Boston where there are likely other competing employers which is helpful for career advancement. Others simply have roots in the area and won't want to uproot. And instead selling "Not Boston" to prospective employees, you now have to sell Nashua vs. Boston (or New York, San Francisco, etc.). Replace "Nashua" with any city/town in New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Central/Western MA, etc. and it's the same deal. Places like Portland, Portsmouth, Burlington, and even Worcester have their own appeal, but it's still hard to sell those places to the majority as better than a place like Boston from a career perspective.

And this is to say nothing of the logistics of setting up outside of the metro area. Any company with other offices outside of the region is going to need an airport nearby with reasonable flight frequency. Hurdles to building office space are greater in smaller cities and towns because the impact of ~1,000 additional workers on local roads, schools, utilities, emergency services, etc. is far greater than it is in Metro Boston. Pushback on taking land for office space is also greater outside of the major cities. Any employer has to also consider that when relocating. There's a reason it hasn't been done on a larger scale and the reason is that it's not nearly as simple or easy as people in this thread make it out to be.

Keep expanding that search radius outside of New England. We have to remember these companies with the big jobs in the big fields operate on an international scale, so this isn't Nashua vs. Boston; this is Nashua vs. anywhere else, including Boston.

If an employer wants to lure in talent that wants lower cost of living and and proximity to the outdoors with skiing, they aren't going to pitch Nashua ... they're going to pitch Salt Lake City. More space and lack of income tax? Dallas. These companies don't really care if the talent is initially local, so that's also a national (and even international) search. That is, they're coming here because this is one of the areas their talent wants to be, but not because this necessarily is an area where that talent already is.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by id77

Keep expanding that search radius outside of New England. We have to remember these companies with the big jobs in the big fields operate on an international scale, so this isn't Nashua vs. Boston; this is Nashua vs. anywhere else, including Boston.

If an employer wants to lure in talent that wants lower cost of living and and proximity to the outdoors with skiing, they aren't going to pitch Nashua ... they're going to pitch Salt Lake City. More space and lack of income tax? Dallas. These companies don't really care if the talent is initially local, so that's also a national (and even international) search. That is, they're coming here because this is one of the areas their talent wants to be, but not because this necessarily is an area where that talent already is.

Oh I completely agree - NH, RI, Western MA, the suburbs, exurbs, etc. are what have been argued ad nauseum in the MA/Boston forums, so I was sticking with that theme. You're right that it's Boston vs. metros nationawide rather than Boston vs. smaller city/town in the same region. It seems as if there are some people who believe that the idea of moving a company (or office) somewhere cheaper and with less traffic hasn't occurred to the decision makers at these places. It's more than just an "if you build it, they will come" issue and big companies know that.

[simplexsimon]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Oh I completely agree - NH, RI, Western MA, the suburbs, exurbs, etc. are what have been argued ad nauseum in the MA/Boston forums, so I was sticking with that theme. You're right that it's Boston vs. metros nationawide rather than Boston vs. smaller city/town in the same region. It seems as if there are some people who believe that the idea of moving a company (or office) somewhere cheaper and with less traffic hasn't occurred to the decision makers at these places. It's more than just an "if you build it, they will come" issue and big companies know that.

According to some, it’s “build it because everyone’s already there.”

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by id77

Keep expanding that search radius outside of New England. We have to remember these companies with the big jobs in the big fields operate on an international scale, so this isn't Nashua vs. Boston; this is Nashua vs. anywhere else, including Boston.

If an employer wants to lure in talent that wants lower cost of living and and proximity to the outdoors with skiing, they aren't going to pitch Nashua ... they're going to pitch Salt Lake City. More space and lack of income tax? Dallas. These companies don't really care if the talent is initially local, so that's also a national (and even international) search. That is, they're coming here because this is one of the areas their talent wants to be, but not because this necessarily is an area where that talent already is.

Not how it works though, generally. People hop from company to company, and many are not eager to relocate these days. One might live in Chelmsford and their spouse already works in Nashua. Their whole family is here, that tech worker isn't just going to up and move to Salt Lake City. But they would happily work out of Nashua instead of making the nightmare drive to Waltham.