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You're sure confident about your complete lack of knowledge of what job discrimination entails. If Spanish is necessary to conduct the responsibilities of the job then what is the problem? Many corporations here do business with Latin America and Latin American clients....should they lose out on business because they don't have people who speak the language? As far as the service industry requiring Spanish in some cases--it may be stupid that people didn't bother to learn English when coming here, but don't blame the businesses for wanting to be part of the Spanish speaking market here. They'd be out a lot of money if they weren't. This is not just a Spanish language issue...go to a site like indeed.com and just put Chinese, Japanese, Russian, etc into the search, you'll sure come up with a number of positions requiring bilingual positions to serve those respective markets around the country.
Bull****. Stop dancing around the issue - of course it is discrimination. Most companies in Miami are Miami based and trade within the US, so Spanish should NOT be a requirement. It's just a way of "weeding out" the blacks and the Gringos so that Jose or Juanita get the job.
Many of you seem to be under the impression that Hispanics in Miami do not discriminate (that discrimination is only from the white man). How wrong you all are and how naive you are too, because it happens all the time in segregated Miami.
Bull****. Stop dancing around the issue - of course it is discrimination. Most companies in Miami are Miami based and trade within the US, so Spanish should NOT be a requirement. It's just a way of "weeding out" the blacks and the Gringos so that Jose or Juanita get the job.
You're throwing out a lot of pejoratives with little basis in fact. I kind of doubt the myriad of professional positions that require one to be bi-lingual are there just so someone can give their fresh-off-the-boat cousin a job (and if you're grouping all Hispanics together in that regard, you have a very poor understanding of differences that exist between Latin American cultures). I don't like the language dynamic in Miami either but I'm also not going to fault companies for adapting to economic realities. If anything, I'd be in favor of employers being forced to ensure that all employees that deal with the public also speak English. After all, bi-lingual in the US also means you should speak English, no? I don't really care if a Spanish-speaker converses with an employee in Spanish, but I do care if I ask for assistance and no one can speak English to me.
Like many of us in Florida and across the USA- I am now a statistic- ie: unemployed. Laid off in August, and needless to say, life has been absolutely no fun.
I have a question that I am posting here because I needed the advice of some locals before I take this matter further.
Long story short, I have been interviewing, and the last company I interviewed with last week (based out of Boston, but with job ops in Miami) asked me if I spoke Spanish. I am American, I do speak quite a bit (spoke it at work about 60% of the time), I will go to Navarro and the gas station and speak Spanish, etc. But since my last name is non-Hispanic, I run into this more often than not.
My concern is that the HR president I interviewed informed me that all applicants to be considered MUST be bilingual. The job is located in the Pinecrest area, which generally does not have the same language issues as say Hialeah, Westchester, etc. But that is besides the point.
My question is: the qualifications coming from the HR president: is this company considered to be an equal opportunity employer? Will I not get the job because of my non-Hispanic last name? And if so, is there anything that can be done? I am not looking to get anyone in trouble, sue, or anything like that...but for a company that states they are an EEO- they sure don't seem to be.
And this is coming out of the mouth of the HR President.
I would really appreciate any input on this matter. Everywhere I look, I am running into the same issue.
Thanks in advance!
Miami Native
Lingonberry
Equal Opportunity only applies to people who aren't white, straight, and english-speaking.
However, I do think it is strange that most Americans don't speak at least two languages. Almost every other country in the world does. I also think the whole free-market and competition thing makes fine sense. That doesn't change my previous statement though.
Last edited by montyburns; 07-05-2010 at 07:35 PM..
You're throwing out a lot of pejoratives with little basis in fact. I kind of doubt the myriad of professional positions that require one to be bi-lingual are there just so someone can give their fresh-off-the-boat cousin a job (and if you're grouping all Hispanics together in that regard, you have a very poor understanding of differences that exist between Latin American cultures). I don't like the language dynamic in Miami either but I'm also not going to fault companies for adapting to economic realities. If anything, I'd be in favor of employers being forced to ensure that all employees that deal with the public also speak English. After all, bi-lingual in the US also means you should speak English, no? I don't really care if a Spanish-speaker converses with an employee in Spanish, but I do care if I ask for assistance and no one can speak English to me.
Ok, replace "Hispanic" with "Cuban", because the reality is that Cubans run the show (Miami). Of course it is unfair to lump all Hispanics together, because let's face it, other Spanish speaking groups (such as Nicaraguans, Hondurans and Colombians) are just as disadvantaged as non-Spanish speakers in Miami, dealing with the Cuban majority.
I think you're being rather naive as to the intentions of many companies in Miami, which are operated by Cubans for Cubans. The reality is that the bilingual thing IS a way to weed out non-Spanish speakers. After interviewing, they probably weed out the Spanish speaking non-Cubans. It's a legal way for Cuban-owned companies to discriminate and it's just plain wrong. If you want to bury your head in the sand and deny this, that's not my problem. I am only trying to tell you (and others) that it's not only the dreaded "white man" that is guilty of blatant discrimination and even if this is some sort of "just deserts", two wrongs certainly do not make a right.
Also, I am all for learning another language. I myself speak French and a little German. I have even dabbled in Spanish. However, I don't think it's fair that a group of recently arrived immigrants (Cubans) take over and turn a formerly English-speaking place into a place where Spanish is almost a necessity, if you want to get a job. To me, that's just wrong. It's like coming into someone else's house and demanding that the people who were kind enough to take you in in the first place cave in and cater solely to YOUR way of life and YOUR rules. Actually, I'd go so far as to say that what has happened in Miami simply stinks.
Unless they can prove that they deal with clients in Latin America or Spain, companies in Miami should be sued for this particular form of discrimination. It's such a shame that most people (clearly including yourself) don't see the wood for the trees.
We should ALL learn a second language, but it should NOT be forced upon us by a self-serving bunch of immigrants who do not care to assimilate and are clearly only looking out for their own collective interests, at our expense.
p.s. if what I'm saying is so awful, so wrong and so unpalatable, how come my previous post received 5 rep points within a short space of time? I guess that many must agree, but most people are too hesitant to tell it like it is.
Last edited by Your.Decision; 07-05-2010 at 07:59 PM..
Ok, replace "Hispanic" with "Cuban", because the reality is that Cubans run the show (Miami). Of course it is unfair to lump all Hispanics together, because let's face it, other Spanish speaking groups (such as Nicaraguans, Hondurans and Colombians) are just as disadvantaged as non-Spanish speakers in Miami, dealing with the Cuban majority.
I think you're being rather naive as to the intentions of many companies in Miami, which are operated by Cubans for Cubans. The reality is that the bilingual thing IS a way to weed out non-Spanish speakers. After interviewing, they probably weed out the Spanish speaking non-Cubans. It's a legal way for Cuban-owned companies to discriminate and it's just plain wrong. If you want to bury your head in the sand and deny this, that's not my problem. I am only trying to tell you (and others) that it's not only the dreaded "white man" that is guilty of blatant discrimination and even if this is some sort of "just deserts", two wrongs certainly do not make a right.
I very much disagree that Cubans still run things the way you say they do. Things have changed a lot in the last 10-20 years in this regard. We simply don't have the massive influxes of Cuban refugees like we used to, so how could this system of "hire Cubans, screw everyone else" still exist on the whole? The Cubans who have money are probably first or second generation Americans, at which point the nationality argument begins to become less and less relevant (especially when you have so many Hispanics from other Latin American countries as well...how could one even tell if one is of Cuban lineage even if they wanted to discriminate?).
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Also, I am all for learning another language. I myself speak French and a little German. I have even dabbled in Spanish. However, I don't think it's fair that a group of recently arrived immigrants (Cubans) take over and turn a formerly English-speaking place into a place where Spanish is almost a necessity, if you want to get a job. To me, that's just wrong. It's like coming into someone else's house and demanding that the people who were kind enough to take you in in the first place cave in and cater solely to YOUR way of life and YOUR rules. Actually, I'd go so far as to say that what has happened in Miami simply stinks.
I very much agree that the language issue has been detrimental to a lot of people, and also that even Hispanic Americans who speak English as their first language haven't helped the assimilation issue (as most will still speak Spanish if someone addresses them in Spanish). But when it comes to business, money talks, and the reality is that there is a lot of money in the Spanish-speaking market. If all but one grocery store in Miami refused to serve Spanish-speaking customers, the one grocery store would be flush with customers whereas the others would foolishly be missing out on potential business.
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Unless they can prove that they deal with clients in Latin America or Spain, companies in Miami should be sued for this particular form of discrimination. It's such a shame that most people (clearly including yourself) don't see the wood for the trees.
Would you be ok with the government forcing all apartment complexes to accept Section 8 housing recipients too? Certainly everyone is entitled to not have to live in the ghetto, right? I know you seem to think that many employers hire Spanish speakers just so they have someone to chat with in Spanglish all day, but you're going to have to give me something more concrete if you expect me to see your point better.
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We should ALL learn a second language, but it should NOT be forced upon us by a self-serving bunch of immigrants who do not care to assimilate and are clearly only looking out for their own collective interests, at our expense.
I very much agree, which is why I said I wouldn't mind if those dealing with the public had to at least speak English (regardless of what language they usually communicate in) by law.
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p.s. if what I'm saying is so awful, so wrong and so unpalatable, how come my previous post received 5 rep points within a short space of time? I guess that many must agree, but most people are too hesitant to tell it like it is.
I never said there weren't people out there who agreed with you, but that's akin to voting for the winning candidate in an election and justifying it by saying, "I'm right because more people voted for the person I voted for than the other candidate."
FWIW, I'm white, was born and raised in Miami-Dade, don't really speak Spanish, and have had plenty of negative experiences with the language issue here. And as I hope I've shown above, I think we agree more than you think we do. However, I don't think playing the "oppressed white guy" card does much to further the argument any more than the people who don't want to assimilate do.
Ok, replace "Hispanic" with "Cuban", because the reality is that Cubans run the show (Miami). Of course it is unfair to lump all Hispanics together, because let's face it, other Spanish speaking groups (such as Nicaraguans, Hondurans and Colombians) are just as disadvantaged as non-Spanish speakers in Miami, dealing with the Cuban majority.
I think you're being rather naive as to the intentions of many companies in Miami, which are operated by Cubans for Cubans. The reality is that the bilingual thing IS a way to weed out non-Spanish speakers. After interviewing, they probably weed out the Spanish speaking non-Cubans. It's a legal way for Cuban-owned companies to discriminate and it's just plain wrong. If you want to bury your head in the sand and deny this, that's not my problem. I am only trying to tell you (and others) that it's not only the dreaded "white man" that is guilty of blatant discrimination and even if this is some sort of "just deserts", two wrongs certainly do not make a right.
Also, I am all for learning another language. I myself speak French and a little German. I have even dabbled in Spanish. However, I don't think it's fair that a group of recently arrived immigrants (Cubans) take over and turn a formerly English-speaking place into a place where Spanish is almost a necessity, if you want to get a job. To me, that's just wrong. It's like coming into someone else's house and demanding that the people who were kind enough to take you in in the first place cave in and cater solely to YOUR way of life and YOUR rules. Actually, I'd go so far as to say that what has happened in Miami simply stinks.
Unless they can prove that they deal with clients in Latin America or Spain, companies in Miami should be sued for this particular form of discrimination. It's such a shame that most people (clearly including yourself) don't see the wood for the trees.
We should ALL learn a second language, but it should NOT be forced upon us by a self-serving bunch of immigrants who do not care to assimilate and are clearly only looking out for their own collective interests, at our expense.
p.s. if what I'm saying is so awful, so wrong and so unpalatable, how come my previous post received 5 rep points within a short space of time? I guess that many must agree, but most people are too hesitant to tell it like it is.
I'm not going to write about your Cuban issues because it will be a very biased opinion on my behalf; I'm an American born and raised in Cuba. But, I will tease you a little bit. Way before the English, Scottish, and Germans settled in this beautiful American state, Florida was an entirely Spanish-speaking state under control of the Captaincy General of Cuba; I’m just talking about European settlers here. Curious, isn't it? Do you know what happened to those Spanish settlers after the British take over? The few that chose to remain in Florida were forced to learn the English language and American customs and habits, similar to what would happen later to the French in Louisiana. History has a funny way sometimes to repeat itself. I'm not saying that Florida should belong to another country or that the English language should be dropped as the de facto USA language. Hell, I think the English language should be declared the only and official language of all states and the USA's possessions. On the other hand, I cannot conceive the idea of people living in the USA for more than 20 years and not speaking a lick of English. Shame on them!
Now, my advice is a simple Real-World 101 lesson, "those who have the money have the power." The Miami market is mainly composed of Spanish-speaking people and consequently business will do anything in their power to get this market. I recognize that the consequences of such practice are unfair for those that only speak English. But hey, blame also Univision and the Spanish-speaking Media, blame the American corporations, Motorola, Apple, Microsoft, Bank of America, Publix, Wal-Mart, McDonald, you name it. The reality is that all these companies have adapted in order to make a profit in this part of the country. If you are young, why can't you adapt? Like Darwin would say, it’s just the survival of the fittest. It sucks but that’s life my man. Look at the bright sight; you have beautiful Latin women all over. Nevertheless, I have noticed that Spanish is only a requirement in low skilled professions except for the ones that deal directly with customers.
PS: You should consider staying and cater to what I believe an increasing English-speaking only population that is taking over Downtown Miami, Miami Beach, and Brickell, especially if you are in your mid 20's or early 30's. Hell, we need more blondes down here. Peace
I very much disagree that Cubans still run things the way you say they do. Things have changed a lot in the last 10-20 years in this regard. We simply don't have the massive influxes of Cuban refugees like we used to, so how could this system of "hire Cubans, screw everyone else" still exist on the whole? The Cubans who have money are probably first or second generation Americans, at which point the nationality argument begins to become less and less relevant (especially when you have so many Hispanics from other Latin American countries as well...how could one even tell if one is of Cuban lineage even if they wanted to discriminate?).
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Totally true, the Cuban population still is the majority but not the super majority that it used to be 10 or 20 years ago; based on the Miami's census. Colombians, Venezuelas, and Central Americans play now a more sharing power role inside the Miami's Spanish-speaking community, we should not forget the Haitians! Regarding the nationality argument, I have seen it myself; after the first generation the Cuban things is just poetry. Many of the second generation of Cuban descendent, I will dare to say 70 percent, do not speak a fluid Spanish.
You're throwing out a lot of pejoratives with little basis in fact. I kind of doubt the myriad of professional positions that require one to be bi-lingual are there just so someone can give their fresh-off-the-boat cousin a job (and if you're grouping all Hispanics together in that regard, you have a very poor understanding of differences that exist between Latin American cultures). I don't like the language dynamic in Miami either but I'm also not going to fault companies for adapting to economic realities. If anything, I'd be in favor of employers being forced to ensure that all employees that deal with the public also speak English. After all, bi-lingual in the US also means you should speak English, no? I don't really care if a Spanish-speaker converses with an employee in Spanish, but I do care if I ask for assistance and no one can speak English to me.
Superb well thought out post !!
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Regarding the nationality argument, I have seen it myself; after the first generation the Cuban things is just poetry. Many of the second generation of Cuban descendent, I will dare to say 70 percent, do not speak a fluid Spanish.
