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What I don't understand is why "non-essential" stores can't open up the way restaurants and grocery stores do. A perfect example is a store like Marshalls or TJ Maxx. These are stores that you have to walk into to find what you want. They are not the type of store where curbside pickup is going to work. So if I can walk into Panera or Shop Rite wearing a mask, why would these stores need to be treated any differently?
Murphy doesn’t want a full reopening until a vaccine is widely available.
At least that is what is reported.
He will allow a foursome in golf instead of a twosome now. But you still can’t get a haircut or shop at Marshall’s, even with a limit on customers.
Last edited by ebbe; 05-18-2020 at 01:23 PM..
Reason: Adding
Murphy doesn’t want a full reopening until a vaccine is widely available.
At least that is what is reported.
He will allow a foursome in golf instead of a twosome now. But you still can’t get a haircut or shop at Marshall’s, even with a limit on customers.
im not sure people were aware that government has this power. they could effectively destroy private business at will. we are supposed to be able to survive without government intervention. they are just a service provider, not our ruler where we are cogs for them to manipulate at will.
I think his position is unsustainable in the long run but that doesn’t help businesses today. I’d give it about two more months and the constitutional challenges will be flooding in. By that time it will be too late for many.
it is a problem with a lot of single businesses and they all have the right to act singly.
those other issues arent for the government to solve. private business is supposed to be private and not subject to closure by the government for operating normally. such closure is beyond the reasonable expectation of government action.
It's not just a business though. There is an entire society that exists beyond the walls of that business that that business is harming. Restaurants have health inspectors regularly. Do you also believe that is a government overreach?
Those private businesses that reopen and contribute to the spread of infection are not going to be paying medical bills for those who get sick. They are not going to be the ones in the hospital caring for the sick due to their negligence and selfishness. Their negligent business model of reopening everything however they please and disregarding masks, social distancing, sanitization, etc. will affect all of us because it spreads to further virus infections outside of just their store. Their business model will force other taxpayers to pick up the bill and treat more people in the hospital and buy more medical equipment. We don't live in anarchy. We live in a society where one person's actions affect other people. And in this case, their actions can affect an entire community or more than just one sector of business.
It's not just a business though. There is an entire society that exists beyond the walls of that business that that business is harming. Restaurants have health inspectors regularly. Do you also believe that is a government overreach?
Those private businesses that reopen and contribute to the spread of infection are not going to be paying medical bills for those who get sick. They are not going to be the ones in the hospital caring for the sick due to their negligence and selfishness. Their negligent business model of reopening everything however they please and disregarding masks, social distancing, sanitization, etc. will affect all of us because it spreads to further virus infections outside of just their store. Their business model will force other taxpayers to pick up the bill and treat more people in the hospital and buy more medical equipment. We don't live in anarchy. We live in a society where one person's actions affect other people. And in this case, their actions can affect an entire community or more than just one sector of business.
In your opinion, when would it be acceptable to fully re-open non-essential businesses?
It's not just a business though. There is an entire society that exists beyond the walls of that business that that business is harming. Restaurants have health inspectors regularly. Do you also believe that is a government overreach?
Those private businesses that reopen and contribute to the spread of infection are not going to be paying medical bills for those who get sick. They are not going to be the ones in the hospital caring for the sick due to their negligence and selfishness. Their negligent business model of reopening everything however they please and disregarding masks, social distancing, sanitization, etc. will affect all of us because it spreads to further virus infections outside of just their store. Their business model will force other taxpayers to pick up the bill and treat more people in the hospital and buy more medical equipment. We don't live in anarchy. We live in a society where one person's actions affect other people. And in this case, their actions can affect an entire community or more than just one sector of business.
Murphy allows a foursome in golf. Is that different than 4 people in a hair salon? What if a restaurant has tables for 4 and keeps each table 6 feet apart...is that any different than the golf foursome?
If Murphy waits till a vaccine is widely available, let’s say 18-24 months away, do you think the nj economy will survive being largely shut down that long? I don’t.
Murphy allows a foursome in golf. Is that different than 4 people in a hair salon? What if a restaurant has tables for 4 and keeps each table 6 feet apart...is that any different than the golf foursome?
If Murphy waits till a vaccine is widely available, let’s say 18-24 months away, do you think the nj economy will survive being largely shut down that long? I don’t.
I literally said I'm interested in bringing more outdoor seating to restaurants to allow for more dining in the fresh air instead of recirculating the same air throughout the restaurant. I think non-essential places like hair salons, barbers, clothing stores, etc. should have capacity limits strictly enforced with random check-ins. I think we should have patrols in crowded areas like beaches and urban cities to guarantee that people are social distancing properly. I think in Hudson County, Newark, the crowded shore towns, and some more urban centers like Morristown should require face masks even if outside. I think you should have to have your temperature checked before receiving service. This is what many other countries are doing and even with that, their infection rates are increasing. But they're still going about it more safely than we are. Running a fever? You can't come into the restaurant. Not wearing a mask? Can't get your haircut. Repeatedly violating social distancing policies while clothes shopping? You have to be kicked out. Other countries are doing temperature checks before boarding public transit. Not a failsafe, but at least some added protection knowing that people on the trains with you are not running a fever. Some are still asymptomatic likely, but at least you're eliminating some exposure. Plus on public transit, if you aren't wearing a mask, you should not be allowed on.
And yes, the 4 in a hair salon are different than a foursome golfing. One is a group of people walking outdoors in wide open space away from strangers. The 4 in a salon are likely strangers. And the virus can last in the air for quite some time. So even if you, your stylist, and the lady next to you and her stylist are not positive for the virus, maybe the person in there before you was. But if the store was not checking temperatures or requiring masks, that person has already breathed in a small enclosed space for quite some time and spread the virus through the establishment. It's not a 100% guarantee that you'll get it, but your risk for exposure is heightened in that scenario.
I literally said I'm interested in bringing more outdoor seating to restaurants to allow for more dining in the fresh air instead of recirculating the same air throughout the restaurant. I think non-essential places like hair salons, barbers, clothing stores, etc. should have capacity limits strictly enforced with random check-ins. I think we should have patrols in crowded areas like beaches and urban cities to guarantee that people are social distancing properly. I think in Hudson County, Newark, the crowded shore towns, and some more urban centers like Morristown should require face masks even if outside. I think you should have to have your temperature checked before receiving service. This is what many other countries are doing and even with that, their infection rates are increasing. But they're still going about it more safely than we are. Running a fever? You can't come into the restaurant. Not wearing a mask? Can't get your haircut. Repeatedly violating social distancing policies while clothes shopping? You have to be kicked out. Other countries are doing temperature checks before boarding public transit. Not a failsafe, but at least some added protection knowing that people on the trains with you are not running a fever. Some are still asymptomatic likely, but at least you're eliminating some exposure. Plus on public transit, if you aren't wearing a mask, you should not be allowed on.
And yes, the 4 in a hair salon are different than a foursome golfing. One is a group of people walking outdoors in wide open space away from strangers. The 4 in a salon are likely strangers. And the virus can last in the air for quite some time. So even if you, your stylist, and the lady next to you and her stylist are not positive for the virus, maybe the person in there before you was. But if the store was not checking temperatures or requiring masks, that person has already breathed in a small enclosed space for quite some time and spread the virus through the establishment. It's not a 100% guarantee that you'll get it, but your risk for exposure is heightened in that scenario.
Murphy will continue to require face masks and social distancing. That is not going away. However, enforcing that is another story.
You’re never going to achieve a 100 percent safe environment but waiting for a vaccine is unreasonable and a vaccine may never arrive.
In your opinion, when would it be acceptable to fully re-open non-essential businesses?
Building on my last post, whenever we build a task force prominent enough to enforce containing the virus. This can be done before a vaccine. I.e. PATH and NJT cops already just hang out in stations. Use them to check temperatures of riders. Might be hard to check every single passenger, but at least some of them. It's not a failsafe of course. But it's at least an added protection. Cuomo keeps hiring NYPD cops to patrol the subways. They might as well do temperature checks as well. NYPD, NJT, and PATH cops can ensure that everyone entering a station is wearing a mask properly. If they're not, they can't come in. And implement real punishments like fines or some low level misdemeanor for violations if people still barge their way onto transit regardless.
If hiring contact tracers, hire some others that will do random drop ins on businesses. Have a tip line. Yes, we know what happens to snitches and I ain't a rat. But if I see a restaurant filled to the brim with customers not wearing masks and the business clearly is not doing any type of temperature check or whatever, have a tip line to report them and someone can do a random drop-in to determine if they're violating any regulations. Have a punishment for them like a fine, cease and desist order, forced closure due to health violations, revocation of liquor license, etc. Not only does this help our public health, but it provides more jobs for unemployed people. This entire concept is putting people back to work, right? Still not everyone will be allowed to return to work possibly. And even if all businesses can reopen, it doesn't mean their employer will be able to pay them again to return to work. Instead of them receiving unemployment, they can get a job doing something like this. As we saw in history, large public investments and employment and infrastructure investment/construction can help the economy by putting more people to work and allowing them to feed their families while they pay taxes and don't require public assistance.
Yes, this is more government involvement. But we are not getting out of this pandemic without government intervention. This is not a problem that we as individuals can solve. We, as individuals, could not have organized against our employers to get us to WFH. We, as individuals, could not have banned flights from corona hotspots from entering the US, We, as individuals, could not have purchased our own ventilators. We, as individuals, cannot treat ourselves for a deadly virus. We, as individuals, are incapable of developing a treatment or vaccine for the virus.
Idk how long this would take, but I assume an infrastructure of such employees, testing procedures, rules/laws implemented, etc. would take a couple months, rather than up to 2 years for a vaccine. And it would add jobs. Simply reopening everything does not guarantee jobs because it doesn't mean every employer can assume full payroll again and it doesn't account for businesses already closed and other factors.
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