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...Look at the South and notice why young New Jerseyans flocked there before the pandemic = quality of life...
In this context, "quality of life" is a subjective term. Most of the people leaving NJ for the south are retirees, and a few who are relocating for work. Yeah, it's tough in NJ, but having visited parts of the south, I'd much rather be around people who are intelligent, where there is infrastructure, where there aren't alligators, and where it isn't above 90 degrees for 7 months out of the year.
I feel like this pandemic can show how a quality of life in a state can be bad. NJ won't be the same Jersey as we know it until a vaccine actually does come out. It will be hard to enjoy the things the state offers from restaurants to parks until a vaccine comes out. Look at the South and notice why young New Jerseyans flocked there before the pandemic = quality of life. At the beginning of the pandemic, people on Reddit were glad they were NJ residents, because we all thought our restrictions would lift faster since we started our lockdown early. I'm glad they lifted elective surgeries, because I need lasik before I land a job and move across the country (I graduated btw).
Lol yeah get back to me in a few weeks and let me know how that QOL is in the South when the virus takes hold again. This reopening criteria tracker, as of me posting this, has NJ as one of only 2 states in the green that can reopen because it's met all the proper criteria. That doesn't mean open up back to normal. But it's safe to try and slowly reopen sectors of the economy again.
I base my quality of life on my ability to have a life. Therefore, NJ has a higher QOL than other states that don't meet the safety criteria to reopen properly, yet are putting profits over human lives. I'm going to do my best and not mention politics, but let's be real, the entire theme of the South and its politics is money and power is more important than human lives. It's been like that since the South was inhabited by white people.
It is Belmar. Someone on the other thread downloaded it to his computer and read off the EXIF information. It's the lineup for people going to buy season beach badges.
Lol yeah get back to me in a few weeks and let me know how that QOL is in the South when the virus takes hold again.
And if it doesn't?
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I base my quality of life on my ability to have a life.
There's a Latin phrase which applies here: "Dum vivimus vivamus." It means "while we live, let us live." We're all going to die eventually; it is foolish to spend the time before this in this sort of half-life.
Quote:
Therefore, NJ has a higher QOL than other states that don't meet the safety criteria to reopen properly
Even by your own criteria, New Jersey fails here, with a COVID death rate of 107 per 100,000, worse than any other state but New York. That includes states like the much-criticized Florida (8 per 100,000) and Texas (4 per 100,000) and the no-lockdown states of Iowa (9 per 100,000), North Dakota (5 per 100,000), South Dakota (4 per 100,000) and Arkansas (3 per 100,000)
There's a Latin phrase which applies here: "Dum vivimus vivamus." It means "while we live, let us live." We're all going to die eventually; it is foolish to spend the time before this in this sort of half-life.
Even by your own criteria, New Jersey fails here, with a COVID death rate of 107 per 100,000, worse than any other state but New York. That includes states like the much-criticized Florida (8 per 100,000) and Texas (4 per 100,000) and the no-lockdown states of Iowa (9 per 100,000), North Dakota (5 per 100,000), South Dakota (4 per 100,000) and Arkansas (3 per 100,000)
Basically the science points to a rise in cases. There hasn't been a single country that has successfully reopened. South Korea, Japan, Chile, Argentina, China. All reopened. All went back into at least partial lockdowns. The only ones that might show promise are Australia and New Zealand. However, both have tested more people per million than the US, and way more than most Southern states. Without rigorous and widespread testing and contact tracing, you are potentially missing countless asymptomatic carriers of the virus. Most other countries have done a far better job than us at that as well.
So because we're all going to die soon, we should bring about death much sooner for millions of our fellow citizens?
What criteria would that be? Did you even bother reading the link I posted? I'll post it again for your convenience. https://www.covidexitstrategy.org/
Yes, this could all change at any time. But as of right today, like yesterday, NJ is still only one of 2 states meeting the criteria to reopen.
Also, do you know how this pandemic works? NJ has a high death rate because it was infected so badly before the lockdowns began. If states reopen too soon, they risk experiencing an increase in their death rate. NJ's will continue increasing as still more die, but it should hopefully continue trending downward, while there's a chance for the others to trend upward.
And yes, everything can change. But literally all the science says the states reopening right now are wrong. This is not me. I'm not a scientist. I don't study this. I also didn't create that website. However, the contributors to that website are scientists and experts in this field.
"We are a group of public health and crisis experts. With former experience working at the White House, Department of Health and Human Services, and on the Ebola epidemic in West Africa. We are a non-partisan group, having worked across multiple administrations. We built this site to track each state's progress towards the critical interventions needed to stop the spread of COVID-19."
Are you a scientist? A virologist? An epidemiologist? A doctor? If you are, then your information is likely valid. However, if you're not, you should be trusting scientists and experts who study this for a living. If all the science and data says "don't reopen," then we should not reopen. Even if you are one of the above, I will prefer to believe an actual group of people who study this, not a single individual. Peer review and collaboration is important for things like this.
I feel like this pandemic can show how a quality of life in a state can be bad. NJ won't be the same Jersey as we know it until a vaccine actually does come out. It will be hard to enjoy the things the state offers from restaurants to parks until a vaccine comes out. Look at the South and notice why young New Jerseyans flocked there before the pandemic = quality of life. At the beginning of the pandemic, people on Reddit were glad they were NJ residents, because we all thought our restrictions would lift faster since we started our lockdown early. I'm glad they lifted elective surgeries, because I need lasik before I land a job and move across the country (I graduated btw).
And from what I understand it could be 2 years before there is a vaccine and then who knows how effective it will be. And that's why I'm so concerned about this state's future compared to the ones that are lifting more restrictions. Because heaven forbid I don't share some people's opinions that the way we're currently living in this state can be the new normal for another couple of years. It is absolutely ridiculous and almost criminal as well! But, that's just the way that I feel. And while taxes might go up all over the US as a result of the virus, it will be felt the greatest here, unfortunately. I wouldn't be shocked if property taxes go up by more than 50% in some areas of the state. And that's just property taxes. So is the QOL going to really be all that better here heading forward than in a state like Texas or Florida? Wouldn't you want to live somewhere where you could get more bang for your buck and where there will probably be more to do? All I know is that as a life long resident of this state, I've never been more concerned about its future than I am right now. And if the restrictions are going to be in place for 2 more years while Florida is more open, you will see a mass exodus from this state like never before. People will just abandon their homes and flee, kind of like what happened in Detroit. But, that's just what I think is going to happen.
Basically the science points to a rise in cases. There hasn't been a single country that has successfully reopened. South Korea, Japan, Chile, Argentina, China. All reopened. All went back into at least partial lockdowns. The only ones that might show promise are Australia and New Zealand. However, both have tested more people per million than the US, and way more than most Southern states. Without rigorous and widespread testing and contact tracing, you are potentially missing countless asymptomatic carriers of the virus. Most other countries have done a far better job than us at that as well.
So because we're all going to die soon, we should bring about death much sooner for millions of our fellow citizens?
What criteria would that be? Did you even bother reading the link I posted? I'll post it again for your convenience. https://www.covidexitstrategy.org/
Yes, this could all change at any time. But as of right today, like yesterday, NJ is still only one of 2 states meeting the criteria to reopen.
Also, do you know how this pandemic works? NJ has a high death rate because it was infected so badly before the lockdowns began. If states reopen too soon, they risk experiencing an increase in their death rate. NJ's will continue increasing as still more die, but it should hopefully continue trending downward, while there's a chance for the others to trend upward.
And yes, everything can change. But literally all the science says the states reopening right now are wrong. This is not me. I'm not a scientist. I don't study this. I also didn't create that website. However, the contributors to that website are scientists and experts in this field.
"We are a group of public health and crisis experts. With former experience working at the White House, Department of Health and Human Services, and on the Ebola epidemic in West Africa. We are a non-partisan group, having worked across multiple administrations. We built this site to track each state's progress towards the critical interventions needed to stop the spread of COVID-19."
Are you a scientist? A virologist? An epidemiologist? A doctor? If you are, then your information is likely valid. However, if you're not, you should be trusting scientists and experts who study this for a living. If all the science and data says "don't reopen," then we should not reopen. Even if you are one of the above, I will prefer to believe an actual group of people who study this, not a single individual. Peer review and collaboration is important for things like this.
Scientists aren't always right and a lot of them like to hype things up. They do the same thing at The Weather Channel with winter storms every year. And while the virus is very serious, especially for a certain segment of the population, I just feel very strongly that people who aren't as much at risk from suffering serious complications from it should have to live the way they're currently living for another 2 years, when maybe, hopefully, there will be a vaccine available. I feel very strongly that this can't be the new normal for 2 more years. Maybe some people do. But, I don't. And think about all the other serious ailments people have and who won't be able to get as adequately treated for them. That's just as much of a tragedy as the virus is.
Scientists aren't always right and a lot of them like to hype things up. They do the same thing at The Weather Channel with winter storms every year. And while the virus is very serious, especially for a certain segment of the population, I just feel very strongly that people who aren't as much at risk from suffering serious complications from it should have to live the way they're currently living for another 2 years, when maybe, hopefully, there will be a vaccine available. I feel very strongly that this can't be the new normal for 2 more years. Maybe some people do. But, I don't. And think about all the other serious ailments people have and who won't be able to get as adequately treated for them. That's just as much of a tragedy as the virus is.
They may hype up a winter storm sometimes, but it doesn't mean people actually believe it's going to be 85 and sunny and the government is doing this for a deep state agenda. There's a big difference there.
I don't believe we need full complete lockdown for 2 years. But if people can't respect social distancing and can't be bothered to wear masks, we don't deserve the privilege of having parks and beaches open. We definitely don't deserve having restaurants open for partial dine-in service. If we develop better contact tracing, mandate masks, check temperatures before entering businesses/public transit, and provide easy and widespread testing, I think we can safely partially reopen.
In parts of NJ like Jersey City and Hoboken, and even in suburban towns with main streets or more lively downtowns, main commercial strips with lots of restaurants should be closed to cars so more outdoor seating can be provided. That keeps people from sharing air and recycling the virus through A/C and stuff like that with us sitting outside at tables 6 feet apart. But anyone not wearing a mask cannot be served. Anyone who refuses a temperature check cannot be served. Anyone who has a temperature cannot be served. Boardwalks should have a capacity and people monitoring capacity.
The main problem IMO is going to be schools reopening. Children very rarely show symptoms. But little kids do not understand the concepts of hygiene or personal space. If anyone has ideas for this, I'd love to hear them honestly. Because I think schools will be the main issue in reopening properly. Little kids will continue to invade each other's personal space, spread germs by wiping their nose and licking things and stuff like that. Even if the classmates don't get sick, they're bringing the virus home to their families now. A generational household with grandkids, parents, and grandparents will be a dangerous place at that point. Those little kids will potentially be asymptomatic and pass it to their parents and possibly high-risk grandparents. But if kids can't go back to school, parents can't be expected to work the same as before. So this is a major issue IMO.
With schools being the #1 issue, #2 is the general attitude of Americans that they can do whatever they want wherever they want whenever they want regardless of how it affects others. Other countries have accepted that it is for the health and safety of their family, friends, neighbors, and fellow citizens to wear a mask, social distance, and have their temperatures taken before entering a business. And they understand contact tracing not only helps the country, but themselves and their loved ones. Americans view those concepts as communist socialist fascist dictatorship oppression slavery all combined into one. Until Americans can accept that the world doesn't revolve around them and they are citizens, nothing is ever going to work.
And remember, Japan, South Korea, China, Chile, Germany, and Iran all reopened and at least partially shut down again. In looking this up, apparently Lebanon and Saudi Arabia did as well. But they were able to catch spikes very early on by their extensive testing network as well as a robust contact tracing system. We cannot properly reopen until we have both of those in place. We have no way of tracking new infections or testing massive amounts of US residents every single day. Furthermore, we have absolutely no federal leadership. So with NJ reopening the Shore, what happens when someone from PA with he virus comes to the Shore and infects people? There is no federal contact tracing. Instead, PA, NJ, and NY will have no way to track all the same people from the same outbreak. This region is far too densely packed and interconnected to not have testing and tracing done together. And what about all the people in this region with second homes in FL or friends/family they visit there? How will the US government stop an outbreak in Miami that affects a family in NYC also?
And let's not forget that we have not shut down flights to the entire world. International flights are still entering the country. How will we ever trace people coming through airports? We may have stopped some flights from some hotspots, but Brazil is a new hotspot and the virus is running rampant there with their President literally not lifting a single finger to help. To the contrary, he's kicked the country while it's down by trying to overturn governors' lockdowns and firing his health secretary for telling Brazilians to social distance. Less than a month later, his replacement left after realizing his job was being ignored. FL, Newark, and New England have a large population of Brazilians. Do we know if their friends and family are coming here? Are some of them returning home after having been stuck there a while? Even De Santis, I believe, has been asking for Brazil to be on a flight ban list because so many Brazilians live in FL. But don't forget, we have Newark, Kearny, and some surrounding areas that are heavily Brazilian and a lot of Brazilians live in RI and the Boston area.
I'm not saying it's impossible for us to reopen anything until a vaccine is ready. But there are just sooooooo many steps the US is not taking, mostly by choice, that could help us reopen more quickly, but safely.
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