Bloody weekend: 24 shot in 24 hours prompting Mayor Bloomberg to call for tougher gun laws (Mexico: unemployment, quality of life)
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Your post doesn't prove anything
It's only the same old NRA propaganda
First, the USA's homicide rate is still FOUR times higher than Western Europe countries' one.
Second, states with low gun ownership rate and/or strict gun laws (such as New York State, New Jersey, Massachussets and California) STILL have a LOWER homicide rate than NRA utopias such as Louisiana, South Carolina, Florida and Texas
Third, Chicago has experienced a decline in crime in the past 20 years, whereas New Orleans (the cherished and beloved NRA utopia) is still one of the world most violent cities whereas NYC, Los Angeles, San Jose and San Diego have - again - a lower homicide rate, close to european standards.
Bye!
Gun Control Has Reduced The Crime Rates In Other Countries =liberal propaganda
1. Fact: The murder rates in many nations (such as England) were ALREADY LOW BEFORE enacting gun control. Thus, their restrictive laws cannot be credited with lowering their crime rates.
2. Fact: Gun control has done nothing to keep crime rates from rising in many of the nations that have imposed severe firearms restrictions.
* Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered that, "Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%.
* Canada: After enacting stringent gun control laws in 1991 and 1995, Canada has not made its citizens any safer. "The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic," says Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser. "Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted.
* England: According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.4
* Japan: One newspaper headline says it all: Police say "Crime rising in Japan, while arrests at record low.
3. Fact: British citizens are now more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States:
* A study conducted jointly by statisticians from the U.S. Department of Justice and the University of Cambridge in England found that most crime is now worse in England than in the United States.
* "You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United States," stated the Reuters news agency in summarizing the study. "The rate of robbery is now 1.4 times higher in England and Wales than in the United States, and the British burglary rate is nearly double America's. The murder rate in the United States is reportedly higher than in England, but according to the DOJ study, "the difference between the [murder rates in the] two countries has narrowed over the past 16 years.
* The United Nations confirmed these results it reported that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States
4. Fact: British authorities routinely underreport crime statistics. Comparing statistics between different nations can be quite difficult since foreign officials frequently use different standards in compiling crime statistics.
* The British media has remained quite critical of authorities there for "fiddling" with crime data. Consider some of the headlines in their papers: "Crime figures a sham, say police,"910 and "Police figures under-record offences by 20 percent. "Police are accused of fiddling crime data,"
* British police have also criticized the system because of the "widespread manipulation" of crime data:
a. "Officers said that pressure to convince the public that police were winning the fight against crime had resulted in a long list of ruses to 'massage' statistics.
b. Sgt. Mike Bennett says officers have become increasingly frustrated with the practice of manipulating statistics. "The crime figures are meaningless," he said. "Police everywhere know exactly what is going on.
c. According to The Electronic Telegraph, "Officers said the recorded level of crime bore no resemblance to the actual amount of crime being committed.
* Underreporting crime data: "One former Scotland Yard officer told The Telegraph of a series of tricks that rendered crime figures 'a complete sham.'
A classic example, he said, was where a series of homes in a block flats were burgled and were regularly recorded as one crime. Another involved pickpocketing, which was not recorded as a crime unless the victim had actually seen the item being stolen.
* Underreporting murder data: British crime reporting tactics keep murder rates artificially low. "Suppose that three men kill a woman during an argument outside a bar. They are arrested for murder, but because of problems with identification (the main witness is dead), charges are eventually dropped. In American crime statistics, the event counts as a three-person homicide, but in British statistics it counts as nothing at all. 'With such differences in reporting criteria, comparisons of U.S. homicide rates with British homicide rates is a sham,' [a report from the Inspectorate of Constabulary] concludes.
5. Fact: Many nations with stricter gun control laws have violence rates that are equal to, or greater than, that of the United States. Consider the following rates:
6. Fact: The United States has experienced far fewer TOTAL MURDERS than Europe does over the last 70 years. In trying to claim that gun-free Europe is more peaceful than America, gun control advocates routinely ignore the overwhelming number of murders that have been committed in Europe.
* Over the last 70 years, Europe has averaged about 400,000 murders per year, That murder rate is about 16 times higher than the murder rate in the U.S.
* Why hasn't the United States experienced this kind of government oppression? Many reasons could be cited, but the Founding Fathers indicated that an armed populace was the best way of preventing official brutality.
Consider the words of James Madison in Federalist 46:
"Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger . . . a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands"
Gun Control Has Reduced The Crime Rates In Other Countries =liberal propaganda
1. Fact: The murder rates in many nations (such as England) were ALREADY LOW BEFORE enacting gun control. Thus, their restrictive laws cannot be credited with lowering their crime rates.
2. Fact: Gun control has done nothing to keep crime rates from rising in many of the nations that have imposed severe firearms restrictions.
* Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered that, "Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%.
* Canada: After enacting stringent gun control laws in 1991 and 1995, Canada has not made its citizens any safer. "The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic," says Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser. "Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted.
* England: According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.4
* Japan: One newspaper headline says it all: Police say "Crime rising in Japan, while arrests at record low.
3. Fact: British citizens are now more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States:
* A study conducted jointly by statisticians from the U.S. Department of Justice and the University of Cambridge in England found that most crime is now worse in England than in the United States.
* "You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United States," stated the Reuters news agency in summarizing the study. "The rate of robbery is now 1.4 times higher in England and Wales than in the United States, and the British burglary rate is nearly double America's. The murder rate in the United States is reportedly higher than in England, but according to the DOJ study, "the difference between the [murder rates in the] two countries has narrowed over the past 16 years.
* The United Nations confirmed these results it reported that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States
4. Fact: British authorities routinely underreport crime statistics. Comparing statistics between different nations can be quite difficult since foreign officials frequently use different standards in compiling crime statistics.
* The British media has remained quite critical of authorities there for "fiddling" with crime data. Consider some of the headlines in their papers: "Crime figures a sham, say police,"910 and "Police figures under-record offences by 20 percent. "Police are accused of fiddling crime data,"
* British police have also criticized the system because of the "widespread manipulation" of crime data:
a. "Officers said that pressure to convince the public that police were winning the fight against crime had resulted in a long list of ruses to 'massage' statistics.
b. Sgt. Mike Bennett says officers have become increasingly frustrated with the practice of manipulating statistics. "The crime figures are meaningless," he said. "Police everywhere know exactly what is going on.
c. According to The Electronic Telegraph, "Officers said the recorded level of crime bore no resemblance to the actual amount of crime being committed.
* Underreporting crime data: "One former Scotland Yard officer told The Telegraph of a series of tricks that rendered crime figures 'a complete sham.'
A classic example, he said, was where a series of homes in a block flats were burgled and were regularly recorded as one crime. Another involved pickpocketing, which was not recorded as a crime unless the victim had actually seen the item being stolen.
* Underreporting murder data: British crime reporting tactics keep murder rates artificially low. "Suppose that three men kill a woman during an argument outside a bar. They are arrested for murder, but because of problems with identification (the main witness is dead), charges are eventually dropped. In American crime statistics, the event counts as a three-person homicide, but in British statistics it counts as nothing at all. 'With such differences in reporting criteria, comparisons of U.S. homicide rates with British homicide rates is a sham,' [a report from the Inspectorate of Constabulary] concludes.
5. Fact: Many nations with stricter gun control laws have violence rates that are equal to, or greater than, that of the United States. Consider the following rates:
6. Fact: The United States has experienced far fewer TOTAL MURDERS than Europe does over the last 70 years. In trying to claim that gun-free Europe is more peaceful than America, gun control advocates routinely ignore the overwhelming number of murders that have been committed in Europe.
* Over the last 70 years, Europe has averaged about 400,000 murders per year, That murder rate is about 16 times higher than the murder rate in the U.S.
* Why hasn't the United States experienced this kind of government oppression? Many reasons could be cited, but the Founding Fathers indicated that an armed populace was the best way of preventing official brutality.
Consider the words of James Madison in Federalist 46:
"Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger . . . a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands"
Jeez, take it easy... The facts speak for themselves...
[quote=RememberMee;. . .How your shot gun would handle that, huh?[/quote]
Sorry remembermee, I currently don't own a shotgun. I have never cared for shotguns. I prefer handguns and rifles and my favorite shooters are usually the lowly .22 Long Rifle caliber.
A few million people armed with lowly .22 caliber handguns and rifles would be very difficult for a tyrannical government to subdue.
Over the last 70 years, Europe has averaged about 400,000 murders per year, That murder rate is about 16 times higher than the murder rate in the U.S.
That's highly imaginative numbers somebody is pulling from his arse. Germany has population of 82 millions and it has about 800 murders per year, no death penalty either. Let's say official Germany murder rate is 800 per 100 millions. In the USA, there are roughly 17,000 official murders/year, it's roughly 5,500 per 100 millions of population. If we to believe the "16 times higher than USA" crack induced fantasy then German murder rate should be what? 16x5,500=88,000/year. Amazingly, German army lost only 27,000 in the 1940 war with France. Somebody is smoking something, its all I can say.
A few million people armed with lowly .22 caliber handguns and rifles would be very difficult for a tyrannical government to subdue.
GL2
Really? Why? It's not hard at all, house to house search "show me your hands, distinct visual signs of firing a gun - immediate bullet between "insurgent" eyes, no obvious signs - simple chemical test for gun powder followed by "appropriate" corrective actions. If troops are fired upon, immediate withdrawal followed by a carpet bombing. A few hundreds of .22 caliber wielding insurgents gathering to "protect" their town, what could be better for a "tyrannical" government? Overwhelming firepower reduces a town and .22 caliber insurgents to dust. A couple of examples like that and there are no guarantees that you will not be the first one to take your .22 caliber to the nearest police station to protect your family (naturally). These days, guerrilla tactics works (partially) only on the armies unwilling (for whatever reason) to unleash whole enchilada of weapons and repression on the reluctant populace. Comrade Stalin had no problems with defeating guerrillas backed by nazies (first) and by the West (after that). And to give comrade Stalin' troops their dues they didn't even act according to my scenario.
Considering that tyrannical governments would control 100% ammunition supplies, your .22 caliber freedom fighting fantasies sound even more like a pipe dream.
Really? Why? It's not hard at all, house to house search "show me your hands, distinct visual signs of firing a gun - immediate bullet between "insurgent" eyes, no obvious signs - simple chemical test for gun powder followed by "appropriate" corrective actions. If troops are fired upon, immediate withdrawal followed by a carpet bombing. A few hundreds of .22 caliber wielding insurgents gathering to "protect" their town, what could be better for a "tyrannical" government? Overwhelming firepower reduces a town and .22 caliber insurgents to dust. A couple of examples like that and there are no guarantees that you will not be the first one to take your .22 caliber to the nearest police station to protect your family (naturally). These days, guerrilla tactics works (partially) only on the armies unwilling (for whatever reason) to unleash whole enchilada of weapons and repression on the reluctant populace. Comrade Stalin had no problems with defeating guerrillas backed by nazies (first) and by the West (after that). And to give comrade Stalin' troops their dues they didn't even act according to my scenario.
Considering that tyrannical governments would control 100% ammunition supplies, your .22 caliber freedom fighting fantasies sound even more like a pipe dream.
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Carpet bombing? Innocent civilians dead by the hundreds? Sounds like a plan. Do you really think U.S. troops would turn on their own citizens? Even if the CURRENT armed forces could all be brainwashed in to firing on Civilians there are many Veterans that have served in the past fifty years that could train civilians in counter measures and effective armed resistance.
Well stick this up your arse over the last 70 years, Europe has averaged about 400,000 murders per year, when one includes the murders committed by European governments against mostly unarmed people. That murder rate is about 16 times higher than the murder rate in the U.S.”
The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
-- Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story of the John Marshall Court
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Carpet bombing? Innocent civilians dead by the hundreds? Sounds like a plan. Do you really think U.S. troops would turn on their own citizens? Even if the CURRENT armed forces could all be brainwashed in to firing on Civilians there are many Veterans that have served in the past fifty years that could train civilians in counter measures and effective armed resistance.
GL2
So it's not about you having a .22 under pillow to fight "tyranny" it's all about US troops treating US citizens much better than they treated Philippinoes, Vietnamese, Iraqis, Serbs, etc. Counter measures against guns, planes, missiles, drones, etc., my guess you watched one too many Reagan's era action movies where HS dropouts defeat evil Soviet forces using little more than their bare hands.
Well stick this up your arse over the last 70 years, Europe has averaged about 400,000 murders per year, when one includes the murders committed by European governments against mostly unarmed people. That murder rate is about 16 times higher than the murder rate in the U.S.”
The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
-- Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story of the John Marshall Court
Nothing but pure black&white propaganda BS. Totalitarian WWII era European governments of Germany, Italy, Hungary, Romania, USSR enjoyed OVERWHELMING popular support, it's American propaganda tradition to paint everything in black ("totalitarian") and white ("democratic"). But the truth is that WWII era totalitarian Germany was more democratic (in the sense of popular will to extend living space) than you can imagine.
Every time US bombs another helpless 3rd world nation I hear "in the time of a war???, there is no place for criticism, support our troops, USA, USA" and the fact is that those mud hut dwellers USA loves to bomb so much are not even a distant threat. Descent during the real wars - Revolution, Civil, WWI & WWII was punishable by death. Armed resistance in the time of a war? Yup, only "democratic" governments are allowed to squash that during the war. 98% reduction in the native Indian population, popular American will to extend "civilized" territory on the expense of the Indian savages, there was nothing evil about that because USA is so democratic. BTW, did guns make a difference for Indians in the long run? Yet Germans attempting to do something of that sort are evil because, you got that right... Germany was not a formal "democracy" even though Hitler was democratically elected. That's a nice rationale "it's not a fascism if we do it" America embraced while self-anointing itself to the higher moral grounds.
[quote=RememberMee;21126193]Nothing but pure black&white propaganda BS. Totalitarian WWII era European governments of Germany, Italy, Hungary, Romania, USSR enjoyed OVERWHELMING popular support,
So in these Totalitarian governments there was OVERWHELMING popular support for:
Germany- the murder of 21 million people by the government
USSR - the murder of 62 million people by the government
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whereas NYC, Los Angeles, San Jose and San Diego have - again - a lower homicide rate, close to european standards. 
