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I am a social work student who learned something a bit shocking about the New York City specialized high school system.
I wanted to post what I learned and see whether people agree with me or not. Whether you agree or disagree, please respond to this thread!
There arecurrently 8 “specialized high schools” in New York City that we, the taxpayers, are funding. These are elite schools with advanced curricula.
In order to get into any of the specialized schools, a student needs to do especially well on one standardized test. This is a system that even the best colleges in America do NOT use. Indeed, this method of selection is called “high-stakes testing” and few educators would agree that it is a valid meansfor admission anywhere.
This system was established in 1972 and hasn't changed.
The “best” of these specialized high schools is considered to be Stuyvesant, and if we look at Stuyvesant we can see something problematic about the whole system of specialized high schools. High-stakes testing creates a system where students in the most diverse city in America are racially segregated from each other. For this reason alone the specialized system must be abandoned as just a fancy way to avoid following the Court ruling of Brown vs. the Board of Education.
For the 2010 academic year, the student body at Stuy was approximately 69.3% Asian and 25.7% Caucasian, 1.7% African American and 2.9% Hispanic.
The city's population in 2010 was 33% white (non-Hispanic), 23% black (non-Hispanic), 13% Asian. Hispanics of any race represented 29% of the population. (I am also Asian.)
Therefore statistics show that although 52% of New Yorkers are black and Hispanic and pay taxes for the public education system, only 4.6% of the students at Stuyvesant High School are black and Hispanic.
Basically the specialized system is geared to separate students based on race. White and Asian students get their own, “special” schools of remarkable quality, while black and Latino students receive racially segregated schools which are often dangerous.
There is clearly something wrong with a system of education that allows such racial segregation. An ex-mayor and an ex-school Chancellor have both stated that the high-stakes testing criteria forStuyvesant is wrong and racially biased. Our tax dollars should not be going to create a system of racial segregation in the field of education!
Is it right that Asian and White students do not study with Black and Latino students? What kind of message are we sending to these students?! Basically we are telling them that they are, racially, “better” than Blacks and Latinos and this is unacceptable. We are telling them it’s OK, in the name of “science” and “knowledge” to separate themselves from people of color.
In New York City this is wrong.
The Coleman Report on Equality of Education pointed out that the more dangerous a child’s neighborhood, and the poorer a child’s neighborhood, the less likely the child will be to do well in school. If we can bail out banks, we can bail out the inner city and provide safe, clean neighborhoods and meaningful jobs for black and Latino parents.
We need to eliminate these racially segregated specialized high schools and begin saving our outer boroughs for the sake of children of color in this city.
The State legislature has the power to cut funding to these “special” schools and to restructure them.
The specialized school system looks like a pleasant and useful system to foster academic excellence, but in reality it is a disgraceful way to segregate children racially and to instill harmful racial attitudes into our young people.
If you disagree, however, please let me know! That's why I posted this in a forum.
Thank you ~~
Julie
That's quite a logical jump you have made. Either you are an idiot or you are a troll. But I'm shocked to know there are now 8. Not too long ago, there were only 3.
1st off, the jump from JHS to HS and the jump from HS to college aren't even similar, so of course you use different methods.
The original post mentioned STUYVESANT HIGH among 8 advanced schoools to show how racially skewed the City's first class public schools were.
She then compared the racial makeup of STUYVESANT to the racial makeup of the City.
I see that the location of Stuyvesant, Chambers Street, immediately North of Battery Park City and roughly nestled between the Finanacial District, Tribeca and the West Village with lovely views of the Hudson River.
Any guess of the demographics of the mile or two surrounding the school? I'm sure the demographics are far closer to the demographics of the school than that of NYC as a whole.
That demographic area DOES include Chinatown.
What of the OTHER 7 schools? Is there a schoool in a Hispanic area that is NOT predominalty Hispanic?
Is it possible that a school's location still matters a great deal. Perhaps kids are not so happy as their parents to begin a 2 hour round trip commute 5 days a week.
As to racism, there are two ways one can look at a standardized test that provides a skewed racial distribution: either the test is actually measuring intelligence or it is not. All kinds of excuses have historically been given to show that it does NOT measure intelligence based solely on the results that occur.
But what if it DOES properly measure intelligence? Is that too hot a potato to address or must we ignore it like a white elephant in the room?
I think if a test validly measures intelligence and ability to learn at an advanced level, it should be kept as a standard for admission. If it does NOT, then it should be discarded.
You can set up schools based on racial equity, you can set up schools based on income, you can set up schools based on ability to achieve...but you apparently cannot do all at the same time in the same school.
The original post mentioned STUYVESANT HIGH among 8 advanced schoools to show how racially skewed the City's first class public schools were.
She then compared the racial makeup of STUYVESANT to the racial makeup of the City.
I see that the location of Stuyvesant, Chambers Street, immediately North of Battery Park City and roughly nestled between the Finanacial District, Tribeca and the West Village with lovely views of the Hudson River.
Any guess of the demographics of the mile or two surrounding the school? I'm sure the demographics are far closer to the demographics of the school than that of NYC as a whole.
That demographic area DOES include Chinatown.
What of the OTHER 7 schools? Is there a schoool in a Hispanic area that is NOT predominalty Hispanic?
Is it possible that a school's location still matters a great deal. Perhaps kids are not so happy as their parents to begin a 2 hour round trip commute 5 days a week.
As to racism, there are two ways one can look at a standardized test that provides a skewed racial distribution: either the test is actually measuring intelligence or it is not. All kinds of excuses have historically been given to show that it does NOT measure intelligence based solely on the results that occur.
But what if it DOES properly measure intelligence? Is that too hot a potato to address or must we ignore it like a white elephant in the room?
I think if a test validly measures intelligence and ability to learn at an advanced level, it should be kept as a standard for admission. If it does NOT, then it should be discarded.
You can set up schools based on racial equity, you can set up schools based on income, you can set up schools based on ability to achieve...but you apparently cannot do all at the same time in the same school.
Nah, location has got little to do with it. Students traveled from The Bronx, DEEP queens (borderline with Long Island or Rosedale/Springfield) and Staten Island. Tech is located in Fort Greene and I can assure you the school demographics does not match the neighborhood at all. Same with Bronx Science.
That's quite a logical jump you have made. Either you are an idiot or you are a troll. But I'm shocked to know there are now 8. Not too long ago, there were only 3.
1st off, the jump from JHS to HS and the jump from HS to college aren't even similar, so of course you use different methods.
I think you meant that I had made an "illogical" jump. Nice try though.
You could also have said that I engaged in a non sequitur. I disagree, and please notice, I am not calling you an "idiot." Let's keep things positive, shall we?
I think the parallel between admissions methods was completely justified.
I know we are all "pissed off New Yorkers" but please don't attack the OP. He made an observation and asked if others agree.
I do not feel the racism has anything to do with this via BOE.
The problem is unfortunately American Blacks and Hispanics of all races make up a dominating percentage of poverty stricken population in this city. They also make up the bulk of single parent low income households, the bulk of incarcerated individuals, the bulk of those living in failing primary and middle school districts in the city. The ghetto, ignorant, violent, non-nonchalant state of mind flourishes in these areas. Parents are not involved and often do not have the resources to assist their children's schools in comparison to the higher performing districts.
Is racism and ethnic discrimination involved, somewhat. However it is not significant at the level of the BOE. The problem is at the community level. Socioeconomic, the social issues in those poor Black/Latino communities are killing them.
How can I make this justification? Black and Hispanic children of all races are doing just fine academically when they come from affluent areas of the city. Unfortunately these numbers are small in comparison to the other groups so you will not see as high successful admissions to these specialized schools.
I am a social work student who learned something a bit shocking about the New York City specialized high school system.
As a social work student, you should know that anything can be racist if you want it to. And it doesn't even require statistics or any kind of research. All you have to do is look at a situation with a particular kind of jaundiced eye, and voila!
Asians, many low income, many with parents having a huge language barriers, and many who suffer discrimination. They have shown in-actual-fact how to educationally succeed. The percentages at the top high schools are astounding. All that hand-waving about culturally biased tests, discrimination in favor of whites, theories about how to educate the disadvantaged etc etc all pales compared to what NYC Asians have actually achieved.
In this life there is talk, and there is doing. Instead of trying to theroize or to reinvent the wheel, look at the successful and copy.
OK, carry on with the various theories, carry on wasting time and kid's futures.
Last edited by bg7; 10-27-2011 at 08:22 AM..
Reason: typos
Studying must be racist then, it should be abolished as well. As that's all that is really required for these exams along with pen and paper. I guess some of the students are too busy making videos for worldstarhiphop.
Is it POSSIBLE that certain races might be inherently smarter than others?
Is ASKING that question racist?
With no regard for the answer?
The question is dicey I know...but it IS the elephant in the room.
Are orientals in the U.S. smarter than whites in the U.S. and are both smarter than blacks and hispanics in the U.S.
What do you think? Are the tests valid for measuring IQ? Does IQ mean anything other than a way to discriminate?
Your thoughts?
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illogical?
