Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The cost of doing business will definitely catch up in the south, no doubt about it. Places become more expensive over time...the northeast only has higher tax expenses for businesses because it has been built up longer than the South. Heck, take a look at New Orleans, the one major southern city that was actually a major city pre WWII, it's corruption and business-unfriendliness rivals that of any northern city. Manufacturing industry starts out in developing areas where there is a lack of unskilled jobs. As time goes on, the workers in those factories start wanting and needing more compensation and power for their work; thus the cost of doing business goes up. The South is simply the last region of the US to go through this stage; the Northeast was the first. Take a look at Europe where the industrial revolution started even earlier than it did in the US! Most manufacturing operations see the writing on the wall and skip over the south now to set up in the third world where they can pay people a tiny fraction of what it costs to employ people in the US. Blame the unions (which make up a far lesser percentage of the labor force across the country now than they did in the 1950's when the manufacturing sector of the economy was booming) or the state governments all you want, but it's foolish to believe they are the only reason that manufacturing has left the northeast, midwest, or nation as a whole.
There's nothing wrong with corporate welfare at a state level if that is what its citizens want, because those citizens will end up paying it. What's bad is when there is corporate welfare at a national level where it can become more corrupt and dissociated from what the people want.
Corporate welfare (aka "incentives" for companies to move to those areas) is why the south has plenty of growth in manufacturing jobs like Toyota in KY, Mercedes Benz in AL, Kia in GA, BMW in SC and a new Boeing aircraft plant in SC.
CHOP Corporate Welfare and the bloated Pentagon budget! Spend that money on the American People, the nation's infrastructure or reduce the U.S. deficit.
I'm glad that you are "buddies" with the greedy corporate welfare scammer officials who are currently "Gutting" the middle-class American public. I'm glad too that you have very few or no unions in the south.
I hope that the gluttonous corporate money hoarders are sharing their underserved $100,000,000 & more yearly bonuses and stock options with you; Oh, that's right the U.S. Supreme Court just gave the corporate scammers the "right" to BUY the United States Congress--I'm sorry they won't have any money to share with you; you're just a simple insignificant expendible corporate-owned SERF--a dime a dozen. "KEEP YOUR NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE! DON'T COMPLAIN! DON'T ORGANIZE A UNION! NO, OUR CORPORATION DOES NOT OFFER YOU MEDICAL COVERAGE OR PENSIONS--YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN! DON'T GET SICK OR HAVE TO ASK FOR TIME-OFF WORK! DON'T "ROCK" THE CORPORATE BOAT OR WE'LL FIRE YOU WITHOUT CAUSE! THE ONLY THING THAT YOU SHOULD REMEMBER IS THAT OUR CORPORATION OFFICIALS WANT THEIR BIG YEARLY BONUSES! YOUR NEEDS ARE MEANINGLESS--GOT THAT!!"
Without unions, every man for himself; don't consider the well-being of ALL MIDDLE-CLASS AMERICANS; don't even consider the well-being & security & future vigor of the USA; "I got mine; to hades with you. Your paycheck doesn't cover your expenses? Too bad, go get a second & third job--work 24 hours a day!" Enslave yourself to the greedy corporate executives, the corporate swindlers who used their companies as casinos then blackmailed the U.S. government into using TAXPAYER MONEY to bail them out of the bankruptcy condition they pushed their companies into for the CORPORATE EXECUTIVES PERSONAL FORTUNES/BENEFIT. And now those corporate officials are making even MORE MONEY/BENEFITS than before they collapsed the U.S. economy into depression--must be a depression with 8.5 million American workers out of work; in actuality that figure has to be much higher than that.
Corporations have NO LOYALTY to this country or to the American people. When this nation--USA--collapses, the corporate executives will move their families and their corporate headquarters to Shanghai or Hong Kong or Mumbai or Brasilia or Singapore or Abu Dhabi>(like Haliburton has already done). Mark my words! American citizens; you are simple SERFS existing only for corporate purposes.
There is a current report out now exposing that corporations (giving the corporation names) are firing their devoted higher paid long-term employees and replacing them with minimum-wage part-time, just out of high school inexperienced young kids so that the corporation executives can extract/devour more money for their own personal greedy selfishnish.
Mark my words! The south has NO HOLD on corporations "fleeing" to other countries! YOUR TIME WILL COME TOO! Once those corporations move their vehicle manufacturing factories to Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica, & El Salvador and pay workers there $5 a day to manufacture automobiles, your Southern factories will rust away too! The corporations will put those Central American built cars on ships and tractor trailers driven by non-U.S. citizens and move those cars all across the U.S. AND STILL CHARGE YOU $25,000 -- $40,000 for one vehicle even though corporate manufacturing & worker costs would have declined by several hundred percent! YOUR TIME WILL COME---just not tomorrow but over several future years; I know, you're just living for today. Do you remember when the corporations moved the Northern U.S. textile industries to the South? Where are those factories NOW? I believe the place is called >>ASIA<<. CORPORATE GOALS: drive down the wages of American workers to minimum pay, pay corporate executives/millionaires/billionaires MILLIONS of dollars per year for "Gutting" the American middle-class, destroy Unions so that there is NO ONE to stand-up for or protect average middle-class American workers, buy the U.S. government & state governments with unlimited election contributions, move corporate headquarters "off-shore" so their corporations don't have to pay ANY U.S. taxes--let people in poverty and the small middle-class pay ALL the taxes, and more, etc. ..Half of the American public refuses to see the obvious. Corporations are ruining the United States with the aid of the U.S. and state governments. That half of the American public is gullible enough to believe what the corporate "sell-out" talk show radio/TV emcees (they aren't objective reporters, that's for sure) RATHER THAN actually "THINK" for themselves; that's dumbing-down of American citizens. Huge numbers of Americans don't really objectively think for themselves; they are involved in more important momentous subjects like: who Paris Hilton is dating THIS WEEK, whether the Alabama Crimson Tide or the Auburn Tigers will win the football game, who is the prettiest sister-Kim Kardashian or Kourtney Kardashian, how many women did a famous (unnamed) golfer go to bed with--was it 25 or closer to 130, whether the Earth is only 4000-5000 years old--when we all KNOW that the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, etc. ~ you know, the earth-shaking, significant, consequential subjects/topics of our time.
MARK MY WORDS! Keep worshiping corporations & their selfish tactics & their executives. Continue to let then run/operate amok/undisciplined/unregulated. Continue to allow the corporations to ship YOUR JOBS to other countries. The United States is in decline at the hands of the corporations and the "low-information", uninvolved American citizens. Wake-up America. YOU ARE the future failed "ROMAN EMPIRE"! That's as clear as the nose on your face. The next World Ruling Countries are CHINA, India, & Brazil. China has the big-bomb, they have intercontinental missles, are building Navy aircraft carriers, buying-up/hoarding all the world's rare Ores/Minerals, China is modernizing all their infrastructure (America's is decaying away--failing/outdated/inadquate and spending money on Billionaires welfare tax breaks and truck-loads of money on the bloated military "bombs and bullets" budget--when the military Generals/Admirals retire 80-90% of them become corporate military-industries lobbyists of Congress), China's making deals with countries all across the world to buy natural resources & in Africa to lease/rent/buy land on which to grow crops to feed China's people, they can build a 3 to 5 million man military to intimidate any nation on Earth, etc. WAKE UP AMERICA!!
I realize that some of you people out there do not want to hear the above truths. Remember, that when it all this happens, "I Told You So and YOU preferred your blindness!"
ill tell u one thing though, i rather be a bad area in nyc than a not so great area in the south, there's a lot of corruption in those little towns down south, and a lot of the cops run em.
nycguy26,
You moved in the wrong direction--South.
I know that the Lower Hudson River Valley, New York City, and Long Island can be expensive (Still less expensive than many other parts of the country) but, you should have moved to Upstate New York where the cost of living is much less, has a high Quality of Life reputation, and would still be close enough to NYC to visit when you might want to do that. You should consider talking with City-Data Members in Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Albany, & Binghamton about relocating to Upstate NY and what their advice is if that is what you have considered doing. The "grass may not be greener" where you moved. If you decided that your move was a mistake, it's always correctable.
I realize that some of you people out there do not want to hear the above truths. Remember, that when it all this happens, "I Told You So and YOU preferred your blindness!"
Some of what you said brings up good points, but some of that stuff is pure tinfoil hat material.
The cost of doing business will definitely catch up in the south, no doubt about it. Places become more expensive over time...the northeast only has higher tax expenses for businesses because it has been built up longer than the South. Heck, take a look at New Orleans, the one major southern city that was actually a major city pre WWII, it's corruption and business-unfriendliness rivals that of any northern city. Manufacturing industry starts out in developing areas where there is a lack of unskilled jobs. As time goes on, the workers in those factories start wanting and needing more compensation and power for their work; thus the cost of doing business goes up. The South is simply the last region of the US to go through this stage; the Northeast was the first. Take a look at Europe where the industrial revolution started even earlier than it did in the US! Most manufacturing operations see the writing on the wall and skip over the south now to set up in the third world where they can pay people a tiny fraction of what it costs to employ people in the US. Blame the unions (which make up a far lesser percentage of the labor force across the country now than they did in the 1950's when the manufacturing sector of the economy was booming) or the state governments all you want, but it's foolish to believe they are the only reason that manufacturing has left the northeast, midwest, or nation as a whole.
The cost of doing business will definitely catch up in the south, no doubt about it. Places become more expensive over time...the northeast only has higher tax expenses for businesses because it has been built up longer than the South. Heck, take a look at New Orleans, the one major southern city that was actually a major city pre WWII, it's corruption and business-unfriendliness rivals that of any northern city. Manufacturing industry starts out in developing areas where there is a lack of unskilled jobs. As time goes on, the workers in those factories start wanting and needing more compensation and power for their work; thus the cost of doing business goes up. The South is simply the last region of the US to go through this stage; the Northeast was the first. Take a look at Europe where the industrial revolution started even earlier than it did in the US! Most manufacturing operations see the writing on the wall and skip over the south now to set up in the third world where they can pay people a tiny fraction of what it costs to employ people in the US. Blame the unions (which make up a far lesser percentage of the labor force across the country now than they did in the 1950's when the manufacturing sector of the economy was booming) or the state governments all you want, but it's foolish to believe they are the only reason that manufacturing has left the northeast, midwest, or nation as a whole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Exactly
Not quite. Is Seattle, WA as old as the northeast? The political philosophy of SC beat out WA when Boeing was deciding wear to put that new plant. Neither of those areas is as old as the northeast
Has Seattle been built an industrialized area longer than SC has? You bet. And does SC have a higher percentage of residents in poverty, and lower education attainment levels than Washington or any state in the Northeast? Yessir.
Has Seattle been built an industrialized area longer than SC has? You bet. And does SC have a higher percentage of residents in poverty, and lower education attainment levels than Washington or any state in the Northeast? Yessir.
we'll just have to re-visit this thread in 30-40 years and see what has happened Remember, states in the south are right-to-work and have a different political philosophy than their counterparts in the northeast and west.
The unions most certainly did play a role in this decision:
Quote:
The new line will help Boeing recover from delays that have set the 787 back at least 2 1/2 years. The planemaker’s board picked South Carolina, a less unionized state, after failing to reach a no-strike deal with Seattle-area workers. The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers shuttered Boeing factories four times in 20 years with walkouts, including a two-month strike in 2008.
Quote:
The 787’s rear fuselage is already made in North Charleston, where Vought Aircraft Industries had a contract to ship sections to Boeing for final assembly in Everett. Boeing bought the operations from Vought in July, and workers there rejected membership in the machinists union last month. Unlike Washington, South Carolina is a right-to-work state, meaning it forbids requiring union membership as a condition of employment.
In many of these southern states, workers have refused to form unions when elections have been held.
Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 21 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,091,524 times
Reputation: 15538
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0
In many of these southern states, workers have refused to form unions when elections have been held.
You are correct, most workers are receiving a fair salary/benefits and don't want the union coming in and telling them what to do. The workers do not wish to lose work in sympathy strikes or pay for what they view as a corrupt and bloated bureaucracy. One industry that is an exception is the coal industry, it does benifit from the union due to a severe lack of goverment oversite.
lol...exactly...and when did those union states become so? AFTER they were heavily industrialized. That was pretty much exactly what I was referring to earlier when I said
Quote:
Manufacturing industry starts out in developing areas where there is a lack of unskilled jobs. As time goes on, the workers in those factories start wanting and needing more compensation and power for their work; thus the cost of doing business goes up. The South is simply the last region of the US to go through this stage;
There were no forced unions in the northeast or midwest prior to the industrial revolution, and there weren't until several decades into it. Yes, when a company comes in to an area with little to no industry and opens up shop, people who are desperate for a job will rejoice and gladly work at the new factory under the companies conditions. Then as time goes on, and the corporation starts to shed the workforce or their pay rate for the bottom line, they become less and less willing to work on conditions that are made by the corporation only and start wanting to make their own conditions.
Using your theory, there never would have been any unions at all; because factories didn't just pop up out of thin air in the north the day that industrialization started, nor were their unions or laws protecting or enforcing them when industrialization started. It was a gradual process. I'm not saying that all union workers arguments are realistic or justified; but that you have to understand the origins of them. And given those origins, it's fairly reasonable to assume the same discourse will play out in the South in coming decades. Though again, as I said before, more companies choose to move their manufacturing operations out of the country completely than to the south.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
America -- You are Corporate property.
