Holiday family drama - offended the MIL... (aging, feel, wife)
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[quote=EvilCookie;46615067]okay, to clear up a few things.
- I wouldn't go so far as calling MIL a bully, or a jerk for that matter. When I say she means well I really do mean that - I know her well enough to say for certain that she loves us, and all of the comments and criticisms are really not intended to offend me or push me around. She really does believe it all comes from nothing but goodwill and wanting the best for us and the kids. However, she also tends to take things super personally, and gets offended super easily. Which is why I tried not to bring this up before - because I couldn't think of a way to do it without her getting her feelings hurt. I knew she would take it as a personal offense, because she sincerely did not think her comments are insulting (which is also why she never frames them as direct statements at me but always as veiled offhand comments). She also doesn't do well with any discussion around feelings - she just shuts down. Which is again, why I could never think of a good way to discuss this with her. She's extremely anxious and high-strung and very fussy when it comes to the kids - like she literally won't sit down when they're around, she keeps running around and trying to do something, bring something, feed someone, pick up the baby at the slightest whimper etc. It's exhausting.
Why is it "exhausting" if she means well, loves all of you and is SO NICE? Is it "exhausting" because she BOTHERS you in ways you are not willing to admit to? Are you jealous of her? Are her "feelings" more important than your feelings? You do not need to answer these questions for me but rather for your self.
- hubby knows the issue and is on my side and has tried talking to her many times, but, he's not good at it. Like many men he has trouble picking the right words and tone - and with her, it's like navigating a minefield. Whenever he brought it up nicely she ignored it and brushed it off; and when he said it more directly and harshly, she would get offended and shut down, sometimes going as far as hanging up on him. She also accused him of things she would never voice to me, like when he said the baby didn't need a full change of clothes just because he got a drop of water on his shirt - she lashed out at him that he's selfish and lazy, "how would you like walking around in wet clothes, the baby can't tell you how he feels!" She'd never say that to me but obviously that's what she thinks when I've said things like that before. DH stepped in yesterday too before I snapped, saying it's 73 in the house and warm enough and telling her to stop it, she just ignored him. He thinks I did the right thing by finally voicing how I feel.
You did the right thing and both of you need to do it some more - especially if your feelings are at least as important as hers are!
- I decided not to apologize. She's too polite to keep acting offended, so we're acting like nothing happened. I don't think I did anything particularly offensive, aside from having a sharper edge to my tone that I usually do in talking to her. I didn't yell, fyi, and I still spoke politely, I just had a definite steel edge in my voice and I sounded agitated, AND I brought up her parenting which was a first. But I feel that apologizing would put me back - it would be admitting that I was wrong and acted immaturely, and would give her reason to keep treating me as a minor.
Oh no, do NOT apologize or even mention it UNLESS she starts up with her "sweet" criticisms again and then defend your boundaries again until she finally gets it.
By putting it behind us without saying anything, I feel I have at least made a statement that may make her think she was maybe wrong, and at least she'll think twice before making these comments again. I did also turn to my mom and made a point of telling her the same thing right after, so MIL wouldn't feel it's personal. Me and my mom have a very open, close relationship, so she has no problem giving me advice and I have no problem telling her I don't agree with it. With MIL, it's always all so passive-aggressive and hush hush, mainly because she hates and avoids confrontation and any emotional discussion.
Which is her subtle way to tell you and others that YOUR FEELINGS are not as important as her feelings.
We're from a culture where it's very much about respecting elders, and grandparents are always extremely involved with their kids' families. It's accepted to give tons of advice, wanted or not, and to be fair they're also always willing to help whenever. My parents do it too, but it doesnt' bother me because I have no issue responding to them without them getting offended. But my mom and MIL have both been raised in this type of culture, taking whatever their ILs said to them with nothing but respect. My dad's mom was amazing and easy to get along with, so my mom had it easy. From what I've heard, MIL's own MIL was actually horrible, yet she has swallowed up everything without a word, because that's how things were done. Which is what was also expected from me, and why my 'outburst' was so unexpected.
I hope you will change the "helpless doormat" programming and conditioning that has been and still is going on in your family and learn how and WHY to set some healthy boundaries in your own life. Breaking away from SOME family traditions, programming and expectations can be hard, frightening and painful but, if you feelings matter at all, why not at least try to break free of the unhealthy family patterns that have never been questioned until now.
Most of my therapy had to do with BREAKING dysfunctional family patterns and habits and it ticked a lot of family members off when I and my late wife refused to go along with the family B.S. any longer.
Good luck setting new and healthier boundaries.
That's not quite fair. Almost a day has passed, and I had the whole night to mull over it. I WAS very distraught last night, because it was so out of character for me and so un-par for the course for our interactions. And I was undecided on whether I felt bad or not about the entire thing. So the advice and comments were very helpful in helping me work through these feelings and figure out how I really felt. I added the clarifications to answer people's questions, and because I felt people were getting the wrong idea about some aspects from my original post, that I thought I needed to clarify.
I wanted to be fair and make it clear that the MIL was not indeed an evil bully like some thought, but just a woman with misguided good intentions and a perfectionist, controlling judgemental personality
Ultimately, its not about what the MIL did or didn't do or what the members here have to say to you. it's about what you feel and how your are going to deal with things - your intentions and goals. You have to decided how to live your life and set your boundaries in the best way you can WITHOUT worrying about what others think or do to achieve the SOLUTIONS that you, your spouse and your kids want.
good luck,
jim
This reminds me of MY childhood. My grandparents always gave me heavy sweaters and undershirts and expected me to wear them often, with a scarf snuggly wrapped around my neck. I strongly, strongly disliked wearing anything heavy and hot, like sweaters and wool scarves. I still do. I much prefer short sleeves, even in winter. I run hot...always have, probably always will. I don't even wear a winter coat unless it's 10 degrees F or less. I only zip them up if it's below 0 F. My indoor thermostat at home is at 63 right now and I am very comfortable.
Parents know the comfort levels of their kids (hopefully). My own kids even now rarely wear jackets and as kids immediately unzipped them if someone else zipped them up. Just this morning, my adult son walked outside barefoot and in short sleeves when he took the dog out. Temps are in the 20s F. He's always been healthy as can be.
And getting sick has nothing to do with how many layers a baby (or anyone) wears.
Why are trying to make it seem as though that is what I stated?
[quote=EvilCookie;46617894]We're not Asian, Eastern European, but the two cultures are actually very similar in the whole unconditional respect for family and elders thing. It's common back in our home country for multigenerational families to live together, and there is no such thing as boundaries between parents and adult kids - trying to set such is considering disrespectful. However, I mainly grew up here and our kids were born here so I don't see myself willing to adhere to these cultural norms quite as much. The rest of the family expects it though. Grandparents have the mindset that they have the right to step in and interfere if they feel parents aren't doing their best for the grandkids. Because it's "all for the kids' sake". So it's a difficult climate already to stand your ground as a young mother. Coupled with the Mil's avoidant and highly sensitive personality, it becomes impossible to do while keeping the peace.
The same theme keeps popping up over and over! "Keeping the peace" is just another way to say that the MIL's (or any elder's) feelings are MORE IMPORTANT than your feelings and must be protected and honored NO MATTER WHAT!
The difference between how I act with MIL vs my mom is simply that, their personalities, plus the fact that obviously I'm closer to and feel more comfortable with my mom because she's my mom! But she can listen to me argue a point and disagree with me without taking it personally. MIL can't. Like I said, she treats any unpleasant discussion in two ways: either ignores it and carries on, or gets her feelings hurt and shuts down the conversation, as she has done several times with DH when he has tried, fairly nicely, bring up something she didn't like hearing. She outright told him "I don't want to talk about this' and wouldn't listen to anything else. And then sulked. How do you talk to a person like that??
You LEARN HOW by studying relationship skills - google it. Or study boundary setting so the MIL does not CONTROL you with the very dysfunctional patterns that she learned to use so long ago. I have a grown sister in law who USES weepy/tearful outbursts to control everyone around her when she is "stressed" - AND IT WORKS EVERY TIME!! - because others let her get away with it.
All that said, though, I know she loves us and the kids and they love her so I am not going to do anything like cut her off, nor do i think she deserves it. I just don't know how to get through to her without conflict.
Google: relationship skills and LEARN HOW to deal with a difficult person and set healthy boundaries which may be a 1st in the family. Be a PATTERN BREAKER!
Why is it "exhausting" if she means well, loves all of you and is SO NICE? Is it "exhausting" because she BOTHERS you in ways you are not willing to admit to? Are you jealous of her? Are her "feelings" more important than your feelings? You do not need to answer these questions for me but rather for your self.
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It's exhausting because, a) me and DH have a very different temperament, we're very laid-back and low-key, and like to take things slow, while she is always tense and full of nervous energy and the need to be doing *something*. And because of that, b) her constant fussing around and comments make me feel judged and criticized, and I come off as lazy if I sit around doing nothing in our home while she's running around cleaning or changing the baby's clothes AGAIN. And yes, she bothers me in these ways, which I do admit.
YESSSSS! That is EXACTLY what she does, all the time! She actually uses the "do you think?" phrase on ME, too! Her last visit, she did that with the baby constantly - "oh, mama, we're hungry, can we have something to eat?" (five minutes after I said I'm making lunch and it'll be ready in ten). "Oh mama, do we need a change?" And she'll "ask" me things like "do you THINK the kids should put something warmer on" - and she makes it obvious with her tone just what my answer should be, and if I disagree she purses her lips and sighs tragically.
And that is how she learned to CONTROL everyone so you have to learn and USE a whole new strategy to assert your needs and desires so she no longer CONTROLS you with her emotional "gimmicks". There are a lot of techniques and skills in books and online for handling Controllers like her and others so you will need to study up on just how to deal with these "nice" USERS or go on being their helpless doormat.
Get any relationship book from a library, book store or on line and get started LEARNING HOW to have a better and happier life while EASILY coping with these pathetic, toxic USERS.
This is a good idea, I guess I just never had the guts to do that. I'm also very conflict-averse as that goes, and admit I do tend towards passive-aggressivness too, not because I'm malicious but just because I hate confrontation. I tend to go on the defense rather than offense.
In cases like above, I never said anything because I figured since SHE isn't saying anything, for me to say something would be rude. She never shows her displeasure very obviously, not like she wants to make a point, it's subtle and just noticeable enough for her to show disappointment. But I may just try it next time.
At home, I was conditioned to be a timid Doormat under my aggressive parents and older brother so, during therapy, I began to get a BACK BONE (healthy self esteem - google it) and slowly acquired the GUTS to speak up, talk back, ask for what I want, honor my feelings and become assertive rather than passive-aggressive (mostly passive). Learning and USING just a few healthy self esteem, self respect tools and techniques can take a timid, passive and FRIGHTENED person right out of the miserable hole they are in and out into a happy and wonderful life of courageous and satisfying JOY.
I'd google self esteem and get busy ASAP boosting your self esteem/worth/respect/dignity/value, etc. After you get a significant back bone and some Guts, handling your game-playing MIL and others will be EASY and even FUN as they all crumble before your NEW power and confidence.
IMHO, the very first time that she said a "passive-aggressive" negative comment you should have said something to your MIL OR your husband should have said something to his mother in support of you. As the husband, I find it unhelpful to fight my wife's battles for her but I did stand up for her a few times in the past. Due to therapy, we both understood that it's important for the Victim to stand up for and defend them selves whenever possible so neither of us defended each other except in very special situations. The Victim MUST find the courage and means to defend them self when their spouse is NOT there to handle the Offenders.
I agree that it is best for the victim to stand up for themselves, however, that does not leave the spouse off the hook if they stay by and allow their parent to criticize their spouse.
I know that in my case, my MIL who often said snarky comments that hurt other people's feelings or made them feel uncomfortable, immediately stopped doing that to me when my husband, her son, told her to stop it. When I tried to stand up for myself, the first few times, she just brushed it off said that I was "over sensitive" or that I "was not used to the way she spoke". She was a wonderful woman but her brash, bold, rude comments to me, IMHO, were not appropriate.
Luckily, after I set boundaries (as did she) we became extremely close and could be very honest with other. But, honest in a tactful, kind way not in snarky and rude ways.
[quote=EvilCookie;46623706]My mom's reaction was predictable and has to do with, as I've explained above, the cultural climate she has been raised in (unconditional respect for elders and family), and her other unwavering conviction, the 'wisdom' she has tried to instill in me, somewhat successfully, since birth: there's a saying in our culture that "bad peace is better than great war". And "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar". She believes in being polite and keeping the peace and being nice to those around you no matter what, outside of extreme circumstances. And she believes in unconditional respect for parents and in-laws simply for the fact that they raised your and your spouse.
My mom is the kind of person that makes friends wherever she goes and manages to keep up relations with everyone from the mailman to the most distant relatives she hasn't seen in decades. I'm quite the opposite - fairly reserved, shy and introverted, and am very selective as to who I let into my private space - they have to be people I feel comfortable and at ease with, and MIL certainly doesn't fit that category.
I can see that you want to show your mom in the best light possible BUT, how did you turn out so different form her? Are you more like your dad, whom you have not mentioned? Exactly what happened in your family to MAKE you do different? I could explain, in great detail, why I am so different from my parents and my siblings but it would take a few dozen pages to tell you. All I can say is that there were a lot of specific reasons why I am so different from my parents, who set it all up from day one, and also my two siblings. I was NOT just born different. Parenting and maybe some genetic stuff MADE me different and I've spent a lot of years trying to OVERCOME the bad things that happened in our family.
So while I have always been polite to her, I've never really let my guard down and I've never taken any initiative in getting closer to her, I was perfectly satisfied with maintaining this cool-polite barrier between us. And my mom has been nagging me about that for a long time now - she believes that I should have done more, things like picking up the phone to call her for a chat myself rather than just having DH do it, inviting her over myself rather than again leaving it up to DH, etc. It's not so much because she is on MIL's "side" - it's because my mom believes that I myself and our entire family would be better if everyone was closer and tighter-knit. What she forgets in this scenario are my own feelings and comfort, which seem to be brushed off as something for me to get over.
In other words, you mom is a Manipulator which might explain why your became so passive as a child and even now. Manipulators NEVER consider the feelings of their Victim's because having CONTROL of everyone is the Manipulator's only goal. You will have to both improve your own self worth AND learn how to set boundaries with your mother (and maybe your dad as well). I'd try to give you a crash-course on both self esteem and boundaries but it's way to big and deep of a subject to get into here so google them or find some library books about it.
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Your intentions
