I'm So Tired Of Hearing About How Awful Today's Kids Are

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Momma_bear

I am pretty sure each and every one of us has things we did that our parents would not have wanted us to do, that our parents never knew we did. However, the "big stuff" as you say is what is important. If we can keep our kids from making huge mistakes that affect the rest of their life in a negative way we should be happy.

Isn't that the truth!

There is something to be said for "learning from your mistakes". But there are some mistakes you'd rather your kids not make, e.g. rape (either the raper or the rapee), fatal DUI, etc.

Originally Posted by somebodynew

I guess I was speaking *specifically* to sex, a very easy thing to keep hidden. You claim to have control over, the ability to expect a certain sexual restraint from your teenaged kids. I am suggesting that that is not really the case. They may choose to restrain themselves. But your expectations are not the driving motivator at this age, necessarily.

Originally Posted by somebodynew

I mistook you for a different poster and incorrectly attributed her words to you. I apologize.

Yes, you were attributing those words to me. I never "claimed" I had control over my kids. I expressed MY opinion on high school sexual intercourse. I was very careful to express it that way, b/c certainly teens experiment with sex.

I must say, in any thread about parenting, be it on this board, Politics and Other Controversies, Education, etc, there are a handful of parents who predict dire results if we all don't parent their way.

[Magritte25]

Originally Posted by somebodynew

Of course not. But what control do you expect and, more importantly, why. Why are American parents seemingly so afraid of sex?

I know for a fact that it isn't only American parents.

I expect my children to control themselves in the sex department until they are understanding and fully willing to have children, deal with the emotional side of sex and choose their partner(s) responsibly.

[90sman]

I have to say that sex isn't a part of high school and being a teenager. I'm 18 and have yet to have it...think I'm going to wait until my wedding night! The majority of my friends are also virgins.

[num1baby]

Originally Posted by somebodynew

I just plain don't agree with this. Those other "teachers" are merely inputs to experience. You cannot teach someone to walk without the experience of walking. You cannot teach someone to talk without the experience of talking. You cannot teach someone to read without the experience of reading. What you have after conversation is background to apply to your experience.

(Except for observation which I would call a limited form of experience.)

I don't even know where to start with all of the stuff you have posted, so I will reply to this. My dad cannot water ski. He has never once in his life stood on a pair of water skis. He taught me and countless others how to water ski. In fact, I can say that he taught me so well that I have never once fallen on skis. I got up on my first try and never fell in all of the years I enjoyed skiing. You can absolutely teach someone how to do something without ever doing it yourself.

[Aconite]

Originally Posted by somebodynew

In my opinion. Starting from the beginning, you model healthy romantic relationships. From the very young age, you speak nopenly and honestly about sexual matters in an open and honest rather than a scary taboo way. When teachable moments arise, say in the news, about movie stars or regular people, you express your views of what is and what isn't healthy. About life in general, you speak openly and often about character and integrity. About love, caring, friendship.

Then as they begin to be specifically interested themselves, you maintain open communication so that they know they have a resource who will not judge. When their bf or gf is a good person, you trust them. You give them as much information as they want. And allow them the freedom, within the bounds of safety and responsibility, to use it.

Anyway that is what a Mom of some wonderful teenaged girls I know seems to have done. I may be biased simply because that is the polar opposite of what my Mom did.

So you're basing your ideal on something you've experienced neither as the daughter nor as a parent, only observed from outside the mother-daughter relationship, yet claim that experience is the only way to learn? Alll-righty then. I'm thinking there's an inconsistency here, but no matter.

I would submit that, by claiming "teachable moments" as part of the scenario, you are expecting the child in the equation to learn from didactics rather than experience. Little Isabella certainly is not part of the famed Britney Spears first marriage (or for that matter, the one to K-Fed), yet you're positing that she can use it as a model for What Not to Do.
Yet somehow, when I suggested that providing direction and guidance is a usable parenting tool, Personal Experience Uber Alles was the response.
Apparently it's only good if an Oprahesque phrase is attached?

::sigh::

Ah well. Your children are roughly the same age as my granddaughters. The novelty of being lectured on Allowing Them to Have Their Own Experiences by someone who hasn't actually had much is kind of wearing off. Using your criteria, I-- like a previous poster-- shall suggest you get back to me when you have a bit more "experience" under your belt.

So...back to the topic...I'm on NJHS members number three and four, from the looks of things. Dd, who has some social anxiety, spoke up to tell a classmate his Nazi manga was offensive. Manchild's friend, who made me a bit twitchy in years past (but not enough to outright discourage the friendship) is growing up to be a really cool teen. The kids in my class are delightful and generally supportive of one another. There are dreadful adolescents out there, certainly, and a few that are just generally stinkers, but on the whole, not so much as one would expect from the media and general social opinion.

[Aconite]

Originally Posted by DewDropInn

Pretty much what we did. They knew about sex from a very young age. They also learned about love. And what sex with love meant. As opposed to doing what you want to do because it feels good at the moment.

They also learned what our religion says on the subject and knew we expected certain things from them until they were actual adults and out of the house.

Which meant we didn't exactly encourage them to sleep with their girlfriends. They were also young at the height of the AIDS epidemic. That didn't make me the most "Free Love" mother on the planet. They knew we lost friends and why.

Responsibility and commitment were mentioned. A LOT.

That works. And funnily enough, I'm pretty sure you and I are miles apart on the subject of religion.

[Aconite]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Isn't that the truth!


Yes, you were attributing those words to me. I never "claimed" I had control over my kids. I expressed MY opinion on high school sexual intercourse. I was very careful to express it that way, b/c certainly teens experiment with sex.

I must say, in any thread about parenting, be it on this board, Politics and Other Controversies, Education, etc, there are a handful of parents who predict dire results if we all don't parent their way.

I think "controlling one's children" is a loaded phrase, and the definition tends to vary from speaker to speaker. I don't claim to control mine (two adolescents down, two to go, and I know better) but I can also say that I had a whole lot of input into their circumstances and their default settings. And to a certain degree, I can manipulate the outcome, though whether or not I choose to do so is a whole 'nother thread.