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Here's a novel idea: "Teach children to behave appropriately everywhere not just in public". This would actually involve PARENTING though so I'm sure the popularity of parents actually parenting is not socially acceptable so it won't happen often.
Oh PLEASE.
What a cop out this is. Parents still parent - it may not be to your taste, but everything grows and evolves.
I have a good friend who's older and has a sad tale of being completely alienated from his father back in the good ole seen and not heard days. Guaranteed that family never did anything along the lines of dining out with their kids. He had a miserable childhood, and was determined not to repeat that with his own child.
Doesn't mean parents don't parent. I can count on one finger the number of times I've seen adults let their children run amok in restaurants.
These threads aways bring out the get off my lawners.
There was news some time in the last few years about a restaurant that wanted to ban patrons with young children and how common it's becoming. I remember reading the comments on the article. Many people without kids (and even some with) said they thought it was a fantastic idea a long time coming because they can't stand having their social outings (movies, dining out, etc) ruined by babies crying or little kids that can't behave.
Many parents objected saying they have the right to go out and do things too and their lives shouldn't have to stop just because they have kids, pointing out that they can't always afford a babysitter or otherwise don't feel they should have to leave their kids at home just to make other people happy. People should just accept that they're kids.
I'm not a parent. Just curious how you all feel about it and how you handle it, especially if you know your kids are particularly unruly? Are there places you simply won't take them or do you just hope that people will be understanding? Do you feel badly when your kids are disturbing others or do you just take it as it is?
I think that it's unrealistic to expect every child to behave perfectly, every time they go out into public. I do, however, think it's rude for those who have children who can't/won't behave, to burden others with their unruly children.
We have a grandson who's nearly 5 years old and we've probably only taken him out 10 times. So much of the training for eating out, should happen at home and that's one of the main gauges we've used in determining whether he's ready or not. If a child can not sit through a meal without horseplaying, getting up and down, interrupting and disobeying or yelling, WHILE that child is at home, then they shouldn't be taken to a restaurant.
If more families "lived" with excellent meal-time behaviors, on a daily basis, there wouldn't be such a stir about children eating in restaurants. If parents are simply too lazy or distracted to bother teaching their children how to behave appropriately in public, they should have to deal with the consequences. Why should everyone else have to suffer for their irresponsible behavior?
What a cop out this is. Parents still parent - it may not be to your taste, but everything grows and evolves.
I have a good friend who's older and has a sad tale of being completely alienated from his father back in the good ole seen and not heard days. Guaranteed that family never did anything along the lines of dining out with their kids. He had a miserable childhood, and was determined not to repeat that with his own child.
Doesn't mean parents don't parent. I can count on one finger the number of times I've seen adults let their children run amok in restaurants.
These threads aways bring out the get off my lawners.
I'd like to agree with you. I can't. We go out to eat All The Time. While I would like to say that the majority of families with children eating out are not disruptive to other diners, I just can't. I actually DO think that there is a discipline crisis going on in the US. The restaurant business is just one example of where and how you see it.
I think it is great that the mainstream is rejecting hyper punitive and corporal "discipline". But nothing useful has emerged in the mainstream to replace it. Parents think that their kids are going to just behave as they ought despite conflicting, inconsistent input that fails to recognize or understand what the learning needs of the child are. When their "instinct" or "gut" does not yield the result they want, they seek to fix the child rather than their own understanding. There we get what I do think is a current trend, to seek a dX that explain what is supposedly wrong with the child.
I'd like to agree with you. I can't. We go out to eat All The Time. While I would like to say that the majority of families with children eating out are not disruptive to other diners, I just can't. I actually DO think that there is a discipline crisis going on in the US. The restaurant business is just one example of where and how you see it.
I think it is great that the mainstream is rejecting hyper punitive and corporal "discipline". But nothing useful has emerged in the mainstream to replace it. Parents think that their kids are going to just behave as they ought despite conflicting, inconsistent input that fails to recognize or understand what the learning needs of the child are. When their "instinct" or "gut" does not yield the result they want, they seek to fix the child rather than their own understanding. There we get what I do think is a current trend, to seek a dX that explain what is supposedly wrong with the child.
Yes, and quite often, the diagnosis should be, "Lack of appropriate behavior, due to ineffective parenting".
There were actual families with children in the restaurant? On Father's Day weekend?
You missed a rather important set of distinctions:
" If I am paying over $150 for 2 of us to eat dinner, I expect the atmosphere to match. I don't think it's appropriate for kids to be tossing silverware on the ground and bursting into loud fits of giggles when the waiter picks it up repeatedly, parents to be walking around with curious toddlers to explore the restaurant during dinner, or hearing a crying baby when all the other tables are in shushed whispered conversations.
I understand kids do those things. When I go to Chiles or Olive Garden, I have no issue with it--those are family friendly restaurants. There are kids menus! Bring your kids and teach train them up in those types of places! "
If you (one) cannot be bothered to teach and expect your child to behave appropriately to a particular situation, then you should keep them out of that situation. Little kids just don't belong everywhere. And the whol rest of the world should not have to deal with someone else' too precious snowflake.
There were actual families with children in the restaurant? On Father's Day weekend?
I didn't realize Father's Day meant that all decorum in fancy restaurants went out the window. It was 8:00 on a Saturday night. Pretty formal time at a pretty formal restaurant. Wasn't prepared to have little kids walking around past my table waving and saying hiiiiiiiiiiiii while parents held their hands, just because it was father's day. If the kids had been able to sit at the tables unobtrusively, GREAT! It wasn't the case though.
Macaroni grill? Great. TGIFridays? Absolutely! Not at a place where the average bill can approach $100/person.
I sort of disagree with the idea that it's okay to let kids be noisy at any restaurant, whether it's McDonalds or a five-star steakhouse. Of course, the behavior standards are slightly different in both places -- but I feel like teaching kids how to sit still and make quiet conversation should start at a place like McDonalds. That way, if they get fidgety or need to blow off some steam, there's a play place to let them run around.
As they age, kids do of course need to learn the distinctions between different public atmospheres -- but while very young, a fast food place (or Chili's or TGI Friday's) is just as good of a place as any to start teaching manners. To be honest, I don't want a kid running around unchecked or screaming while I'm eating at Macaroni Grill any more than I'd want that while at a more expensive restaurant.
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