ASU economists say we'll grow when our leaders stop looking stupid" (Phoenix: house, to buy)

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

The problem with us not attracting the reputable businesses & high paying jobs like we should has little or nothing to do with our so called "low funding" of public education. Hell, 50% of the state budget is allocated to schools ... not exactly a low priority as far as spending is concerned! Besides, a growing number of people would rather send their kids to private schools vs. public. I'd be willing to bet money that many executives of these lucrative firms we are trying to attract have enrolled their kids in prestigious private schools anyway ... so I highly doubt they give a rat's rectum about "K through 12" public schools (which a good share of parents/breeders use as free daycare anyway).

The issue is never with people who value their kids' education. They will always find ways to get it. The issue is how can we better include those kids who do not have this head start, maybe because their parents don't have the time, the emotional strength or whatever the reason. Right now we are simply writing off a large part of our kids and doom their future. For the majority of our young generation it is probably easier to win the lottery than earn double their parents real income in their adult lives. This is a big issue for Arizona. We are kind of reintroducing a class society like Colonial England, something we once violently rejected.

[Tall Traveler]

I don't think following the example of a state that has gone from the envy of the world economically to the 3rd highest unemployment rate in the USA, is losing jobs and population, and is likely in the process of seriously killing the goose that laid the golden egg as a model of anything other than a model of failure.

There are some states that are thriving such as N & S Dakota, Nebraska, Utah, and Texas and it seems a combination of good schools, low taxes, and open for business mentality including allowing minerals extraction are factors.

IMHO, funding of schools is far less a factor than a desire from parents and community to have good schools. Sufficient funding is necessary ut less important than parents

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

The issue is never with people who value their kids' education. They will always find ways to get it. The issue is how can we better include those kids who do not have this head start, maybe because their parents don't have the time, the emotional strength or whatever the reason. Right now we are simply writing off a large part of our kids and doom their future. For the majority of our young generation it is probably easier to win the lottery than earn double their parents real income in their adult lives. This is a big issue for Arizona. We are kind of reintroducing a class society like Colonial England, something we once violently rejected.

That is not true. Private education can be very expensive. And if you have multiple children, the costs increase considerably. Just because a family can stretch their budget to provide a privately funded education doesn't mean they will necessarily choose to do so particularly when they can send their kids to school for free. You better believe successful and educated families evaluate a communities schools when moving.

Originally Posted by Tall Traveler

I don't think following the example of a state that has gone from the envy of the world economically to the 3rd highest unemployment rate in the USA, is losing jobs and population, and is likely in the process of seriously killing the goose that laid the golden egg as a model of anything other than a model of failure.

There are some states that are thriving such as N & S Dakota, Nebraska, Utah, and Texas and it seems a combination of good schools, low taxes, and open for business mentality including allowing minerals extraction are factors.

IMHO, funding of schools is far less a factor than a desire from parents and community to have good schools. Sufficient funding is necessary ut less important than parents

Considering all the b.s. our state spends money on, spending it on schools and education would be a significant improvement.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by infocyde

Spending per pupil is such a meaningless metric by itself. We could spend a million dollars per pupil and get almost nothing in return for it. And I'd like to see data that shows that Californians who watch the daily show are the ones that necessarily drive an economy. I know many people who left California and live here now for the exact reason that it is different than California. Maybe that "economist" should go try and start a business in California and then one in Arizona to see which one actually has a better business climate.

Do you really want to compare the education of the audience of the Daily Show to those who watch Rush Limbaugh? It's not a coincidence that Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck lack college degrees. John Stewart graduated from William and Mary.

[jdahunt]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

From the U.S. Census:

2010 Illinois population: 12,830,632
2013 Illinois population: 12,882,135

Thanks for proving my point, when you factor in births which outpace deaths by about 60,000 a year the Illinois population should have grown by 180,000 in that period...instead it went up by your numbers only 48,000......so in that period we had a net loss of 132,000 through migration

Illinois has had a net loss of migration going on for the past 10 years.....the largest city Chicago has less people in it today than it did in the 20's.

What was Arizona's net migration gain in that period.......how many from Illinois.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

That is not true. Private education can be very expensive. And if you have multiple children, the costs increase considerably. Just because a family can stretch their budget to provide a privately funded education doesn't mean they will necessarily choose to do so particularly when they can send their kids to school for free. You better believe successful and educated families evaluate a communities schools when moving.



Considering all the b.s. our state spends money on, spending it on schools and education would be a significant improvement.

I agree. What I meant to say is that somehow poor immigrants from Asia somehow achieve a good education for their kids regardless of money status but with extreme willpower. They btw have the lowest birthrate for a reason too. You are right they do not choose Arizona on average, not only for lack of good public schools but also because they don't match Sheriff Joe's and our legislature's approved racial criteria and narrow mindset. They are certainly not approved by our Center for Arizona Policy and that seals the deal here.

[john3232]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

...The issue is how can we better include those kids who do not have this head start, maybe because their parents don't have the time, the emotional strength or whatever the reason.

No matter how much money is spent it's often extremely difficult for schools to overcome a family environment not conducive to leaning or worse outright counterproductive.

Unfortunately, this is one problem I felt the current administration should have zeroed in on but instead it continues to be off-limits for discussion.

[Potential_Landlord]

Who does not think that passing 1-2 anti-abortion bills per year and having to litigate them for millions of $$$ makes our politicians look stupid and Arizona unwelcoming and exclusionary? No wonder the realtors are alarmed.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by john3232

No matter how much money is spent it's often extremely difficult for schools to overcome a family environment not conducive to leaning or worse outright counterproductive.

Unfortunately, this is one problem I felt the current administration should have zeroed in on but instead it continues to be off-limits for discussion.

There are some wrap-around, extracurricular programs for this situation, but they are very intense and expensive as well. This is something our AZ legislature would never look into and instead rather write these kids off. The calculation in Arizona is that these people will either not vote or be stripped off their voting rights as felons. That's good enough for our legislature. Problem solved.

[jdahunt]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Do you really want to compare the education of the audience of the Daily Show to those who watch Rush Limbaugh? It's not a coincidence that Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck lack college degrees. John Stewart graduated from William and Mary.

Really....that is what you're going with....lol...come on.

There have been plenty of money wasted on people going to college and getting a degree.....it doesn't equal inteligence or being smart.....so in your world Bill Gates is dumb.....interesting.