Teacher walk-outs in Phoenix area (credit, wages, income tax)

[All American NYC]

With these protest of higher wages people fail to realize, besides higher taxes higher wages are inflationary. With in an increase in the money supply the demand for goods and services increases

This whole protest is a power grab. Most unions tend side democratic since the days of Franklin d Roosevelt. Since that era Regan was the only Republican to go toe to toe with unions.

If the protest was about the children they wouldn't be used as pawns.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by rosco917

The teachers deserve a raise...I'm telling you what will happen if the Unions gain more and more power in this state. That is their goal, that's what they do.

I'm assuming you have proof that the 20% raise was a shell game.

It's borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, which is what state government has done for years to meet short term issues. It's not a sustainable way of operating over the long haul. The tax breaks that Governor Cold Stone and his helpers have been passing out for years have to STOP at some point.

[Finger Laker]

This isn't a union action. Unions in education are non- existent.

There is no 20% raise. Even that figure was actually in the table (it's not), the lower figure discussed for this year didn't account for teachers that do not have a class roster ( any specials teacher), does not account for support staff and had no funding beyond unrealistic growth projections and ripping money from universities, social needs kids, health care and stuff like that.

There was never a transparent, sound, legal proposal. Just a soundbyte that allows them to say they made a concession - they didnt. That is why there is no detailed proposal to review. It simply doesn't exist.

Finally, from the beginning this was about more than teacher pay. It is educational funding.

We lost 36.6% of our school funding between 2008 and 2015.

Our state had lost multiple billion dollar lawsuits related to education funding and hasn't responded to actually fix it, aside from prop 123 which was essentially a land grab that put the state back in court.

The people keep voting to fund schools, yet the budgets get slashed.

How many items cost less today than in 2008? Not many. The cost of materials increases, insurance increases, building repair and maintenance increases, electric gas and water all increase...... Our schools have been swallowing these increases while their funding decreases and we are now past the breaking point.

The ask has been from the beginning to put a plan in place to restore education funding to 2008 levels. Teacher pay its just a sub narrative that draws emotion and clicks

[Finger Laker]

Children aren't being used a pawns. Your rhetoric is weak.

A short term inconvenience to push for a sustainable long term benefit is still a benefit in sum.

The kids are hurt everyday they walk into an understaffed school, with a lack of resources in a possibly unsafe setting.

That harm impacts their lifetime

[wase4711]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

This isn't a union action. Unions in education are non- existent.

So, you are saying there are no teachers unions in the USA or just in AZ?

[kitshipp]

Originally Posted by wase4711

I have one question that is nagging at me, but I cant find the answer anywhere..
The teachers are saying that a 20% pay raise isnt enough to keep them from walking out; if not, what EXACTLY is?

I mean, they are saying the want money for other staff, money for school improvements, money for books, money for technology, etc..
OK, how much SPECIFICALLY for each of those things do they want? I have yet to see ANY SPECIFIC AMOUNTS requested for ANYTHING; all I see is "20% pay raise isnt enough"

How are residents supposed to decide if they support all these things, if we dont even know what they are asking for SPECIFICALLY??
Having a walkout because 20% pay raise isnt sufficient, and not listing SPECIFICS for what you are actually walking out over will only turn the public against them, IMO..Plus, the public has a right to know SPECIFICALLY what they want to avoid a prolonged job action..

Am I missing something here, or is there an actual list of SPECIFIC REQUESTS somewhere? And just saying we want more money for this or that isnt an actual bargaining position, is it?

Their demands are pretty easy to find:

20% raise for all teaching and certified staff

Competitive wages for all classified staff

Return school funding to 2008 levels

No new tax cuts until AZ per-pupil spending reaches national average

Yearly raises until AZ teacher salary reaches the national average


ETA link: http://arizonaeducatorsunited.com/demands

[Finger Laker]

Originally Posted by wase4711

So, you are saying there are no teachers unions in the USA or just in AZ?

There is a union in AZ, but if had no power, doesn't collectively bargain and cannot provide any real benefit.

People don't like paying dues for no benefit and it's not like they have a lot of extra income to throw around.

The overwhelming majority of AZ teachers do not belong to a union.

[wase4711]

Originally Posted by kitshipp

Their demands are pretty easy to find:

20% raise for all teaching and certified staff

Competitive wages for all classified staff

Return school funding to 2008 levels

No new tax cuts until AZ per-pupil spending reaches national average

Yearly raises until AZ teacher salary reaches the national average


ETA link: Arizona Educators United - demands

Thanks, I hadn't seen that specific info anywhere..

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

There is a union in AZ, but if had no power, doesn't collectively bargain and cannot provide any real benefit.

People don't like paying dues for no benefit and it's not like they have a lot of extra income to throw around.

The overwhelming majority of AZ teachers do not belong to a union.

wow, didnt even know a union for teachers even existed in AZ..thanks for the info

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

There is a union in AZ, but if had no power, doesn't collectively bargain and cannot provide any real benefit.

People don't like paying dues for no benefit and it's not like they have a lot of extra income to throw around.

The overwhelming majority of AZ teachers do not belong to a union.

From the "union" website:

AEA was formed more than a century ago, in 1892, when a group of Arizona educators banded together to protest the use of 14-year-old textbooks.

LOL! Not much has changed in Arizona.

[ajonesaz]

Originally Posted by ibarrio

Yeah, California pays 20 grand more and actually is proactive in supporting education. Note, not one state is perfect but at least some are trying.

Strangely enough, California only spends about $500 more per student to accomplish this. AZ has to be wasting a lot of money somewhere, because a lot more should end up in teachers pockets.

Utah spends more than $1k less per pupil and still manages about a $50k annual salary.