Covid virus in phoenix (accepting, supply, plastic)

[wase4711]

Originally Posted by like-2-hike

1. The store sets the rules for entry. Historically, that's been shirt/shoes required, more recently leave your backpacks outside or at customer service (my area Fry's stores, at least), and now masks required. Some businesses forbid firearms.

2. No one seemed to have a problem with stores having these policies before COVID. Certainly some people continued to conceal carry firearms even when they were prohibited, but my circle of friends who conceal carry did obey the business requirements to disarm before entry.

3. A reasonably large segment of the population holds fast to the second amendment and right to bear arms - a right they expect the government to recognize and honor. Nothing at all wrong with this IMO except for the hypocrisy noted below.

4. The same population seems to be vehemently opposed to following the requests/requirements of government or private business when told to wear a mask in certain settings.

5. Presumably the same population would expect that signs they post to their property, e.g. "No Solicitation", "No Trespassing", etc. would be honored.

So how can you expect to have your rights honored and respected when you refuse to honor and respect the rights of private businesses or the legitimate public interest the government may have in requiring temporary changes to mitigate risk of a major health emergency? Rules apply only when you decide they should?

Without getting into the masks saves us/masks are stupid discussion, I just wanted to say these points in this post should be stickied in this forum..

If you want to enter a business that requires shirt/shoes/masks/no firearms, then you need to adhere to those requirements; if you dont agree with ANY of the store requirements to enter, than DON'T GO TO THAT STORE!

your point on people expecting others to adhere to their "no tresspassing" signs on their houses, and any other requests you make to people trying to enter your home, is right on point...dont expect others to respect YOUR RULES. if you dont respect THEIRS!!

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by like-2-hike

I appreciate the response, but I think only a very small percentage of the never-maskers are actually conspiracy theorists about the masks themselves. Mostly, it seems like a "FU for telling me what to do" mindset. I can understand thinking that, but I can't understand actually following through with it.

When Costco announced they were going to require masks, I vowed not to go after the requirement started, and went the night before it was enacted, stocked up, and thought I was the smart guy, because their mask mandate would backfire and they'd back off. I was wrong. I've gone several times since, and I wear a mask the entire time I'm in there. It's uncomfortable and I dislike it, but I do it because it's the rule.

It seems super weird to me that you would put one on to get past the "hall monitor" at Costco and then take it off, but it appears that's what people are doing (at least up here in Prescott). If you're so confident of your stance, try and walk in without wearing a mask at all. Since they're not enforcing it inside the store or at checkout, why do you think they'd actually stop you?

On a related note, I would be fine with the stores trespassing people who are not following the rules. Police would enforce that even if they wouldn't enforce the mask mandate otherwise, and then the brave never-maskers might realize there are repercussions to their actions.

Then how do you explain them not protesting seat belt laws, driving while texting laws, speed limits, the requirement to wear shoes, etc.? There's a reason this is such an assault on their "liberties" but nothing else that they're required to do is, and you can't attempt to explain a hypocritical, senseless position with logic.

[FlurryCat]

Originally Posted by like-2-hike

I've gone several times since, and I wear a mask the entire time I'm in there. It's uncomfortable and I dislike it, but I do it because it's the rule.

I do it because it's the right thing to do, and would do it without city / county / store rules. Also, I still don't get the comfort thing. For years, hundreds of thousands of people in this country have worn masks as a requirement of their jobs, and most of those masks are of a much more uncomfortable type than the lightweight little things we're asking for now. I always compared it to when I got older and started needing glasses - It's different and it takes some getting used to, but it's not uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by like-2-hike

On a related note, I would be fine with the stores trespassing people who are not following the rules. Police would enforce that even if they wouldn't enforce the mask mandate otherwise, and then the brave never-maskers might realize there are repercussions to their actions.

Unfortunately, I suspect that in most places they wouldn't. Many sheriffs / chiefs across the country have publicly stated that they would not be responding to mask complaints (yet another instance of hypocrisy from the LAW & ORDER brigade and yet another example that the police need to be accountable to the civilians they supposedly work for). Calling it trespassing might work once, but not longer term.

[fluffythewondercat]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

Then how do you explain them not protesting seat belt laws, driving while texting laws, speed limits, the requirement to wear shoes, etc.? There's a reason this is such an assault on their "liberties" but nothing else that they're required to do is, and you can't attempt to explain a hypocritical, senseless position with logic.

Perhaps not, but seat belt laws aren't new during a time of upheaval. Nor are the other things you mentioned. To some people, putting on a mask means they acknowledge the world has changed and not in a good way. If they don't put the mask on, they can pretend there's no problem.

IOW, they're in denial.

Then there are those who simply think rules don't apply to them.

Some of each type post on C-D still.

[AloePurell]

Originally Posted by autism360

Hi has anyone heard of any cluster areas of Covid out breaks in the Phoenix area that should be avoided?
From various news articles it appears that if you are under 60 and in decent health that you have little to worry about but if you are over 60 or have lung problems then you are at higher risk of having a difficult time recovering from the virus.

Probably not. My 3 nieces, their parents, and 3 of my friends got it and only the adults (20s and 30s) felt any bit different. The only one of us who really felt sick was a girl who'd already had poor immunity due to problems w/ her organs and she's morbidly obese. Kids felt nothing at all, and only mild symptoms for the adults and they're all recovered. I'd be surprised if I hadn't gotten it by now. If I did I felt pretty much nothing.
There's still so little known about it but I don't think young healthy people are at much risk.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Casey73

The numbers being reported are highly inflated to instill fear in the naive. The survival rate for those who actually have symptoms is around 98%. People who test positive for the virus or the antibodies but were asymptomatic are counted at WuFlu cases. Most of those who died were in a few states, and of those, most had serious health issues before they got WuFlu.

And to think we screeched the entire economy to a halt & permanently ruined many small businesses for a tiny fraction of the population who developed severe symptoms. Quite a few of the ones who became severely ill and/or died lived unhealthy lives to begin with: smokers, alcoholics, fat food junkies, etc. In many ways, it was their own fault.

Originally Posted by Casey73

As for people being made aware of cleanliness, if one doesn't understand basic hygiene by adulthood, no public mandate is going to change that. The masks are ineffective. It is at this point symbolic. Those who wear masks because they believe it prevents the spread of WuFlu are not well informed and those who see through the ruse and don't wear a mask are "murderers". The fact that I'm seeing people nonchalantly ignoring the mask rules, and nobody (so far) has made a big stink about it tells me most people know it's all bulldust but don't want to be the first to stop wearing the mask.

I've always questioned the effectiveness of masks, but I'm still wearing mine, especially if stores require them (which many of them do). Why resist or make a scene if it's part of the store's policy? Leave and go elsewhere if you don't want to comply with the rules. Which would you rather have: businesses remaining in full operation with mask policies, or another widespread shutdown? I choose the first option.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

I'm over the masks at this point. If I don't have to wear a mask at a restaurant, then I surely won't wear one when I'm at Lowe's in an aisle by myself. If I'm in a crowded location (grocery store, Costco, etc) I will wear a mask to be respectful to other people. But to walk into a Circle K with two other people in the store? Makes no sense. I'm going to just use logical thought about when it's appropriate to wear a mask, and when it is not. Many, many people are coming to the same conclusion.

Science has learned a lot about COVID. It's not a super virus. Rather, it is wimpy. Generally speaking, transmission happens via droplets (total load). So transmission rarely happens "airborne" (aerosols) or by touching contaminated surfaces. Show me an outbreak or concentration of COVID transmission and it is going to happen indoors. So that science is in but the message hasn't been modified which is a shame. Yes, as a whole, COIVD is overblown.

Realize when you think you are all alone at Lowes and I want to come down the isle, I might turn around and wait. When it is the store policy and law, I consider someone an uneducated and selfish dick. Yes, that stare was intentional. And while we are at it, I predict employees don't appreciate your flawed logic. Don't shoot the messenger.

Luckily for me, I have N95's. So statistically speaking, my fitted masks should protect me from people who inaccurately assume they understand the science. What is obvious is that masks (even crappy ones) knock down a lot of the droplets reducing the total load. My properly fitted N95's knock down 95% of submicron (below a millionth of a meter) particles.

So here you go. Watch it and learn. If you get the virus, you will be part of the problem at Lowes or Cicle K.
https://edhub.ama-assn.org/jn-learni...layer/18357411

In short, restaurants are allowed to dodge a mask to keep them in business. It's called risk mitigation. So when you are eating at a table inside, there is a risk. But so long as the infection rate is below 1.0 and people are fairly vigilant in other environments, I get why the rules were waived. It's why I want to eat outdoors and I still wear masks while I wait for my food (reducing the droplets of people breathing and talking closeby). Remember, it's the total load that matters.

[Ponderosa]

How anyone can look at the epidemic curve in Arizona and question whether masks are effective baffles me. The state went from 5000 cases per day, 30% positive rate, near crisis levels of hospitalization to 1/10 of those numbers based solely on wide spread compliance with mask wearing and closing of bars.

Keep it up. It is an MN says: this virus is a wimp. It appears to be easily controlled when both the infected and non-infected are wearing even home-made mask protection when in close proximity.

[goolsbyjazz]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

How anyone can look at the epidemic curve in Arizona and question whether masks are effective baffles me. The state went from 5000 cases per day, 30% positive rate, near crisis levels of hospitalization to 1/10 of those numbers based solely on wide spread compliance with mask wearing and closing of bars.

Keep it up. It is an MN says: this virus is a wimp. It appears to be easily controlled when both the infected and non-infected are wearing even home-made mask protection when in close proximity.

I agree. Let's keep it up and look forward to the day when we all can rid ourselves of them. I'm also a little envious of countries like New Zeland that have gone back to normal.

[fluffythewondercat]

Does anyone know how reliable ASU's saliva test is?