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Let me guess, you read that on the internet or heard it on TV?
I've never worn a true fitted respirator (N95) a day in my life. I wear a cheap paper disposable surgical mask ever single day and am exposed to and work with people with COVID all the time. I've reported to work every single workday since the pandemic started. I bring every staff member that tests positive for covid into my office, offer my assistance, fill out paperwork with them, council them, provide them directions for reporting back to work, etc. Knock on wood, I'm tested weekly and six months later I'm still covid free thanks to my disposable surgical mask.
I've been repeatedly "exposed" to coughing and hacking patients that are not wearing masks that later test positive for COVID. Again, only a disposable surgical mask.
That's your recommendation? Then the Doc's are wasting the PPE including masks, jumpsuits, shields etc. Are you suggesting to toss it all out because you only need a surgical mask?? Of course, you could have been asymptotic and have developed the antibodies. Realize you have one data point. Now I realize I am an "armchair scientist". You need some more data before you assume you have all of the answers.
Listing your children's backgrounds and careers as proof of your expertise is a strong argument.
Again, it shows how little you know about the topic. We are required by the state to test our entire facility weekly for that exact reason (700 people). When we test our entire facility someone (or multiple people) come up positive which requires us to continue testing weekly. When that stops we get to move to monthly testing. Anything else I can clarify for you?
The state dictates testing in the healthcare industry. I find it hard to believe that an ER doctor has not been tested. I'll take your word for it though.
Nor pulmonologists. In fact, I heard an MN customer complain about it. I just stated a fact.
All my point about what my kids do is that I am not guessing. Your failure to grasp basic science because you manage a facility (and let me guess, with ZERO healthcare education experience) speaks volumes. I mean, for someone to say healthcare isn't technical is down right.... I won't say. Wear a cheap surgical mask and assume you are protected. Have at it! If people want to roll the dice using your "proven" one data point approach, I say go for it!
We have all learned we should F the research! Do as LBTRS does. He's protected with a surgical mask. I wish you the best! But please, leave that snot nose employee alone! You need to be open minded. lol
That's your recommendation? Then the Doc's are wasting the PPE including masks, jumpsuits, shields etc. Are you suggesting to toss it all out because you only need a surgical mask?? Of course, you could have been asymptotic and have developed the antibodies. Realize you have one data point. Now I realize I am an "armchair scientist". You need some more data before you assume you have all of the answers.
Lol, again you're not keeping up. I'm not recommending anything. I'm disputing the point he (and you) made that only N95 fitted respirators provide protection to oneself.
Again, I've been tested for antibodies (state mandated) and I have none.
Come on man, you're really making yourself look silly...you referred to your technical background. If I remember correctly you have some background in mechanical engineering. I pointed out that we were talking about healthcare and medicine, not the "technical background" that you (or I) have. You are no more qualified (maybe less since I at least work in healthcare) than I am with my advanced electronic/computer education/training/career, teaching electronics and computers, writing technical manuals, etc. I don't claim to know anything for certain, I'm just stating my experience working around covid EVERY DAY.
Sitting around posting things you read on the internet makes you an armchair scientist.
Lol, again you're not keeping up. I'm not recommending anything. I'm disputing the point he (and you) made that only N95 fitted respirators provide protection to oneself.
Again, I've been tested for antibodies (state mandated) and I have none.
Come on man, you're really making yourself look silly...you referred to your technical background. If I remember correctly you have some background in mechanical engineering. I pointed out that we were talking about healthcare and medicine, not the "technical background" that you (or I) have. You are no more qualified (maybe less since I at least work in healthcare) than I am with my advanced electronic/computer education/training/career, teaching electronics and computers, writing technical manuals, etc. I don't claim to know anything for certain, I'm just stating my experience working around covid EVERY DAY.
Sitting around posting things you read on the internet makes you an armchair scientist.
Actually, I'm an EE. In the past, I focused on material science. Google SEM, TEM, submicron semiconductor development, DOE's, Taguchi and it helps you understand the relivence. We have to read other peoples work and apply accordingly. But I've left that field in the late 90's. Now I sell expensive technical products normally to technical people.
And yes, healthcare is incredibly technical. I cannot imagine someone debating that. Obviously you are doing rudimentary healthcare. As in, adult babysitting. To assume "healthcare" is what you do is oversimplifed.
I'm done. F science and the research and wear a surgical mask. Got it!
Actually, I'm an EE. In the past, I focused on material science. Google SEM, TEM, submicron semiconductor development, DOE's, Taguchi and it helps you understand the relivence. We have to read other peoples work and apply accordingly. But I've left that field in the late 90's. Now I sell expensive technical products normally to technical people.
And yes, healthcare is incredibly technical. I cannot imagine someone debating that. Obviously you are doing rudimentary healthcare. As in, adult babysitting. To assume "healthcare" is what you do is oversimplifed.
I'm done. F science and the research and wear a surgical mask. Got it!
Please show me anywhere I debated that healthcare isn't technical? You won't be able to. The only thing you can show is where I debated whether your "technical background" is applicable to the argument we're having. You understand that though and is the reason you then tried to expand your credibility by listing your children's occupations.
I am not allowed to wear an N95 mask, per federal/state guidelines, or I would. Billions of people all over the world are being protected by surgical masks so for anyone to state that they don't provide the wearer protection is nonsense. Again, I think you said this in an earlier post today. I simply shared my ACTUAL experience (not reading it on the internet, hearing it on TV, or listening to war stories from my children) in my facility with 700 people. The surgical masks have made a huge difference and is the reason we're doing so well compared to when the federal government was telling us not to wear any masks and we were not allowed to wear them (while they were sending covid patients to us to empty the hospitals).
Anyway, I think you know better since you seem like a smart guy so I'll assume the nonsense you're posting is simply to keep the argument going.
Let me guess, you read that on the internet or heard it on TV?
Facebook! (Actually I've never been on there) In fact, I've got a bit of real-world experience with masks and airborne hazards.
I'm a live and let live kind of person myself, and when I read through these threads and something bothers me I generally let it pass rather than have a credential-measuring contest. (Plus, if I'm gonna fix the whole world I'll need to pace myself.) But as the ignorance persists and it continues to endanger my family, and I think about the thousands of needless deaths, I see this stuff and it makes my head explode. So here goes:
I'm a Chemist and a ChemE. For 30 years at a large, global chemical company I had to transition products from R&D to Manufacturing. For every new raw material, new process, and new end product I was required to specify the proper PPE for the plant workers, source the PPE, and do the fit testing of masks as needed (our EH&S Dept. was under-staffed and under-motivated).
I took an early retirement buyout from there and spent the next 10 years consulting with large hospitals on Joint Commission compliance. This work had me in every room in the facility, often with ill patients that couldn't be moved. For each room I had to file a plan with the hospital listing protection for the patients and myself and have it approved by their staff.
I have specified, worn, and fit tested every type of mask from flimsy surgical masks up to powered, full-face positive-pressure units with multiple cartridge stacks.
I know masks. I know masks for healthcare. And I darn sure know how to protect myself from airborne hazards of all types.
People are dying needlessly. Many survivors will suffer long term health issues. We need everyone to wear a mask in public. The End.
I am not allowed to wear an N95 mask, per federal/state guidelines, or I would. Billions of people all over the world are being protected by surgical masks so for anyone to state that they don't provide the wearer protection is nonsense.
I reread your posts. You are right, I didn't read your words properly on the "healthcare technical" topic. My bad.OBVIOUSLY quality well fitted surgical masks help reduce the spread of viruses. That's never been up for debate. I got the feeling that you felt comfortable with wearing a surgical mask all by itself. AND (as our mask expert suggested) you wearing a surgical mask all alone isn't good enough giving others a pass by not wearing one. Therefore, people in your industry with only surgical masks (to a certian level) are rolling the dice. Let's see what our mask expert says...
While we are gabbing, some "surgical" masks are TERRIBLY quality. I'm clarifying because some people reading this might assume the blue masks that they bought off of Amazon are all created equal. Nope! And to be clear and while i am babbling, I don't have to be in the healthcare industry to understand submicron filtration. I can understand a technical topic like masks with clarity by reading papers and studies. I've done that. It may take a technical brain to sort fact from fiction. That was my only point. So yea, having the ability to read about masks, pouring though technical studies will allow me to have a heck of a lot more knowledge than a person working in a nursing home.
I will say, not being allowed to wear an N95 mask seems idiotic. No way in Hell would I be working in an industry that is so illogical. If you would have explained yourself like you did in post #2616, the back and forth posts would have not happened. We took the long cut to conclude that surgical masks help (duh). The only debate is if it is good enough. Research disagrees even when it helps. It's why I said people working in the ER go though contortions to "mask up". The fact that you have employees getting COVID from patients might suggest otherwise. Oh course, there are a lot of people in healthcare getting COVID. Therefore, a surgical mask won't cut it by itself. But as luck would have it, we have a mask expert poster. Maybe he can expand on the topic.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 09-18-2020 at 05:21 AM..
"The scenarios in respect of the generation of droplets and aerosol, particularly in the indoor environment, have not been adequately understood, and thus, insights into the plausible mechanisms are worthy of being explored. Duguid (1945), for the first time, has explored the characteristics of droplets and aerosol from human expiratory activities with chest infections, and such information is presented in Table 1 . Duguid (1945) has observed that 95% of particles were often smaller than 100 μm, and the majority were between 4 and 8 μm. The findings corroborated that breathing and exhalation originated from the nose have shed up to a few hundreds of droplets of which some were aerosols. In contrast, talking, coughing, and sneezing have produced more aerosols than droplets (Table 1)."
Breathing out of your nose with a "sigh" (burst) increased the droplets. It's all about the load. So talking adds more droplets. Singing even more. Yelling at a bar even more. There is a table on that link. This is from United States National Library of Medicine.
So when you checkout and the person asks if you need anything else, do you shake your head and refuse to talk? If you have a tickly throat, do you clear your throat ? It should be pretty obvious why people think someone is a dick that walks into a store with complete ignorance or arrogance.
Now we all have learned that COVID is overblown. There is no question about it! Still, wear your mask (it IS a PITA) and do your part.
I've never not been in a store without a mask on. I never said I refuse to wear a mask. I said when I'm not around people, I pull my sh*tty piece of cloth down around my neck. When I see someone walking down the aisle, I pull it back up. When I checkout, I have my mask on. I don't like my mask, but I'm not a d*ck (like you claim). I have respect for people.
I've never not been in a store without a mask on. I never said I refuse to wear a mask. I said when I'm not around people, I pull my sh*tty piece of cloth down around my neck. When I see someone walking down the aisle, I pull it back up. When I checkout, I have my mask on. I don't like my mask, but I'm not a d*ck (like you claim). I have respect for people.
It seems I've misread your post too. Sorry about that. I read your post to mean you use "logic" and that you were not alone (because people don't bother in a restaurant). I thought you said that if you are all alone in Lowe's isle, then I thought you said why bother (or an empty convenience store)?
I've never not been in a store without a mask on. I never said I refuse to wear a mask. I said when I'm not around people, I pull my sh*tty piece of cloth down around my neck. When I see someone walking down the aisle, I pull it back up. When I checkout, I have my mask on. I don't like my mask, but I'm not a d*ck (like you claim). I have respect for people.
Actually, you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sno0909
I'm over the masks at this point. If I don't have to wear a mask at a restaurant, then I surely won't wear one when I'm at Lowe's in an aisle by myself. If I'm in a crowded location (grocery store, Costco, etc) I will wear a mask to be respectful to other people. But to walk into a Circle K with two other people in the store? Makes no sense. I'm going to just use logical thought about when it's appropriate to wear a mask, and when it is not. Many, many people are coming to the same conclusion.
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Wear a cheap surgical mask and assume you are protected. Have at it! If people want to roll the dice using your "proven" one data point approach, I say go for it! 
lol
OBVIOUSLY quality well fitted surgical masks help reduce the spread of viruses. That's never been up for debate. I got the feeling that you felt comfortable with wearing a surgical mask all by itself. AND (as our mask expert suggested) you wearing a surgical mask all alone isn't good enough giving others a pass by not wearing one. Therefore, people in your industry with only surgical masks (to a certian level) are rolling the dice. Let's see what our mask expert says... 
