Covid virus in phoenix (European, coverage, travel to)

[hikernut]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

But I will agree about the empathy aspect. It took me personally about seven months to finally know someone who had COVID. I still don't know anyone who has died. For a lot of people, it's hard to correlate numbers on a screen with the reality of what they see everyday.

I don’t personally know anyone who’s died from, for example, pancreatic cancer. That doesn’t make me think it’s not real.

Among the people I know who have had COVID... four neighbors within two blocks of our house, a niece, two adult children of my best high school friend.

My place of work has 19 cases recorded so far. Thankfully my job allows me to work from home.

My wife has one co-worker who lost her husband to it, and another who’s husband is currently on a ventilator. My stepdaughter’s workplace has had two cases.

Yes, it’s real.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by hikernut

I don’t personally know anyone who’s died from, for example, pancreatic cancer. That doesn’t make me think it’s not real.

Among the people I know who have had COVID... four neighbors within two blocks of our house, a niece, two adult children of my best high school friend.

My place of work has 19 cases recorded so far. Thankfully my job allows me to work from home.

My wife has one co-worker who lost her husband to it, and another who’s husband is currently on a ventilator. My stepdaughter’s workplace has had two cases.

Yes, it’s real.

This is an ignorant post. Who said anything about COVID not being real? I sure didn't. We were talking about having empathy, not the reality of the virus.

[ringler24]

Originally Posted by belgirl

Of course they can--however that isn't happening in schools. So this whole paranoia about kids shouldn't be going to school because they will all transmit it to each other and die just isn't true.

Interesting article about Higley School District:

https://communityimpact.com/phoenix/...d-19-policies/

"The district also noted in the video that contract tracing shows most positive cases on campus come not from exposure on campus but from outside activities such as parties and sleepovers."

Also emphasizes the lack of common sense people have.

I personally feel closing the schools is more about sending a message to every community that there is massive community spread and everyone must curtail their behaviors. When schools are open it's just like business as usual in the minds of many parents. Our hospitals are at capacity. That's very serious. I am at a school where we have had cases both within our student body and our staff. We also currently have 24 kids on a 10 day quarantine list for going home sick. A lot of our parents don't have their kids tested.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by ringler24

I personally feel closing the schools is more about sending a message to every community that there is massive community spread and everyone must curtail their behaviors. When schools are open it's just like business as usual in the minds of many parents. Our hospitals are at capacity. That's very serious. I am at a school where we have had cases both within our student body and our staff. We also currently have 24 kids on a 10 day quarantine list for going home sick. A lot of our parents don't have their kids tested.

And parents send kids to school even if they are sick. But I also think it sends a mixed message and promotes spread having bars, restaurants and tatoo parlors open. There is a wealth of evidence that restaurants and bars are about the worst place to be in terms of risk.

[ringler24]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

And parents send kids to school even if they are sick. But I also think it sends a mixed message and promotes spread having bars, restaurants and tatoo parlors open. There is a wealth of evidence that restaurants and bars are about the worst place to be in terms of risk.

Oh I completely agree. Unfortunately we have a governor who doesn't want to lead.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by ringler24

Oh I completely agree. Unfortunately we have a governor who doesn't want to lead.

Ducey isn't the best leader as I've acknowledged before, but I'll give him credit that he's not a dictator like Newsom in CA. I'd hate to be in CA or some other states right now where nearly everything is completely locked down, and the fall out from it is resulting in greater financial hardship for business owners than the COVID virus itself is. Businesses need to be allowed to stay open, regardless if they're salons, gyms, or restaurants. They all serve an essential purpose. The public just needs to be a little smarter and wear masks & avoid large gatherings whenever possible. No government mandate can cure ignorance or laziness.

[belgirl]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Ducey isn't the best leader as I've acknowledged before, but I'll give him credit that he's not a dictator like Newsom in CA. I'd hate to be in CA or some other states right now where nearly everything is completely locked down, and the fall out from it is resulting in greater financial hardship for business owners than the COVID virus itself is. Businesses need to be allowed to stay open, regardless if they're salons, gyms, or restaurants. They all serve an essential purpose. The public just needs to be a little smarter and wear masks & avoid large gatherings whenever possible. No government mandate can cure ignorance or laziness.

Completely agree. The people who are complaining about Ducey would be crying in their beer if they had to live in California or New York right now.

[belgirl]

Originally Posted by ringler24

I personally feel closing the schools is more about sending a message to every community that there is massive community spread and everyone must curtail their behaviors. When schools are open it's just like business as usual in the minds of many parents. Our hospitals are at capacity. That's very serious. I am at a school where we have had cases both within our student body and our staff. We also currently have 24 kids on a 10 day quarantine list for going home sick. A lot of our parents don't have their kids tested.

So you want to "send a message" by punishing kids who aren't super-spreaders? If kids aren't in school. you have no chance of restarting the economy and whole lot of other issues.

[belgirl]

Snippets from an LA Times article which I find interesting...

The percentage of Angelenos staying home except for essential activities has remained unchanged since mid-June — around 55% — despite pleas from health officials in recent weeks for people to cut down on their activities, according to a survey conducted by USC.

A similar story has played out nationwide, as millions of Americans zigzagged across the country to visit family over the Thanksgiving holiday, flouting the advice of health officials.

“It’s not because the public is irresponsible; it’s because they are losing trust in public health officials who put out arbitrary restrictions,” said Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious-disease specialist at UC San Francisco. “We are failing in our public health messaging.”

"California officials are desperate to reverse an unprecedented flood of new coronavirus cases up and down the state, and even their critics acknowledge the impossibility of the situation. But banning relatively safe outdoor activities risks alienating people who want to follow the rules but feel exhausted, disregarded and sometimes confused by them, Brown University health economist Emily Oster said.

“Some of the things they’re telling you not to do are incredibly low-risk,” Oster said. “When you are so strict about what people can do, they stop listening.”

Dr. Eric Kutscher, an internal medicine physician at New York University., who recently wrote about harm reduction and COVID-19, said it acknowledges an uncomfortable truth: that people are going to socialize whether they are allowed to or not.

He added that he thinks health officials’ rhetoric lacks nuance in part because they were initially trying to drown out President Trump’s downplaying the threat of the virus. But as a front-line physician, Kutscher fears that the current messaging shames people and doesn’t consider their needs — that they may still have to go into work, that they may be lonely and depressed.

“Clearly what we’re doing is not working,” Kutscher said. “The idea of people gathering on Thanksgiving, it’s terrifying. It really upsets me, but I think we need to figure out how to get beyond that visceral response to instead focus on an actual productive conversation.”

A pandemic response guided by harm reduction would explain the risk levels of different activities and let people decide their comfort levels, with perhaps the most dangerous settings prohibited altogether. Public health research has found that this strategy makes people feel empowered to make their own choices and that, ultimately, they don’t take more risks than they would have otherwise.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by belgirl

Snippets from an LA Times article which I find interesting...

The percentage of Angelenos staying home except for essential activities has remained unchanged since mid-June — around 55% — despite pleas from health officials in recent weeks for people to cut down on their activities, according to a survey conducted by USC.

A similar story has played out nationwide, as millions of Americans zigzagged across the country to visit family over the Thanksgiving holiday, flouting the advice of health officials.

“It’s not because the public is irresponsible; it’s because they are losing trust in public health officials who put out arbitrary restrictions,” said Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious-disease specialist at UC San Francisco. “We are failing in our public health messaging.”

"California officials are desperate to reverse an unprecedented flood of new coronavirus cases up and down the state, and even their critics acknowledge the impossibility of the situation. But banning relatively safe outdoor activities risks alienating people who want to follow the rules but feel exhausted, disregarded and sometimes confused by them, Brown University health economist Emily Oster said.

“Some of the things they’re telling you not to do are incredibly low-risk,” Oster said. “When you are so strict about what people can do, they stop listening.”

Dr. Eric Kutscher, an internal medicine physician at New York University., who recently wrote about harm reduction and COVID-19, said it acknowledges an uncomfortable truth: that people are going to socialize whether they are allowed to or not.

He added that he thinks health officials’ rhetoric lacks nuance in part because they were initially trying to drown out President Trump’s downplaying the threat of the virus. But as a front-line physician, Kutscher fears that the current messaging shames people and doesn’t consider their needs — that they may still have to go into work, that they may be lonely and depressed.

“Clearly what we’re doing is not working,” Kutscher said. “The idea of people gathering on Thanksgiving, it’s terrifying. It really upsets me, but I think we need to figure out how to get beyond that visceral response to instead focus on an actual productive conversation.”

A pandemic response guided by harm reduction would explain the risk levels of different activities and let people decide their comfort levels, with perhaps the most dangerous settings prohibited altogether. Public health research has found that this strategy makes people feel empowered to make their own choices and that, ultimately, they don’t take more risks than they would have otherwise.

This would be fine and dandy if we didn’t have a large population of conspiracy theorists that believe YouTube videos and lunatics like QAnon over scientists. We need mandates because too many people are stupid and/or selfish. Letting people “decide their own comfort level” neglects the fact that one’s choices impact others. Our large population of selfish morons is part of the reason why we’re doing so much worse than other countries. Sorry, but common sense and courtesy can no longer be counted on.