Covid virus in phoenix (richest, bank, room)

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by FlurryCat

Yeah, but think of it as taking one for the team. I'm just thrilled about the idea of sacrificing myself for somebody else's personal economy. The old "old and sick people have no value" trope. Really grinds my gears. Especially since they know it's wrong and that's why they never come out and say it plainly.

Unfortunately, our society seems to regard youth as more important, while older people are thought of as less worthwhile. It upsets me too, especially that I'm a caregiver for an elderly parent who is one of the nicest people anybody could ever meet (my biased opinion of course).

Originally Posted by FlurryCat

Still waiting for someone to tell me the dollars per death amount that used as the basis for that. One dead guy (or girl) per restaurant saved? Two? Do people under 65 count double? Healthy people with no underlying conditions triple?

Why don't we turn it around and say what's good for the people instead of what's good for the economy. Or is life not worth living unless you're well off?

Point being that a downturn in the economy caused by these draconian government mandates affects nearly everybody, regardless of their financial status. If anything, the small business owner who works hard every day just to pay the bills is the one being hurt the most. In turn, it severely inconveniences the consumers who rely on businesses for their every day needs. We definitely need to consider the economic impacts because they heavily affect the good of the people.

Originally Posted by FlurryCat

Most businesses could have operated at something close to normal if people had taken proper precautions, but too many were more interested in making a "statement." How about putting some of the blame for the need to shut down businesses on these people.

There is no will or effort on the Governor's part to encourage or enforce compliance. "Mask Up Arizona" is a slogan, not a strategy. Local mandates don't carry the same weight as something state-wide. Why not a simple 30 second PSA on TV with basic mask instructions? "Cover both your nose and mouth, make sure the straps are tight, adjust your nose piece." Awareness is a huge part of safety education and could improve the effectiveness of mask wearing.

Why no compliance incentives? "We'll let you go to the gym if you idiots wear masks and keep the spread low. Otherwise, you can stay home and lift old tires in your garage." That would incentivize both the owners and customers. And you don't need a cop at the entrance to every place to enforce compliance. Occasional spot checks would do it. But zero enforcement is zero commitment. If people knew there would be no police on the highways next week, what would happen? That's how it is with masks and distancing.

Why not a final push for a few months until the vaccines get circulated. Letting the virus run wild at this point is way more irresponsible and willfully stupid than it was six months ago. Especially since there are still very few people thinking about the long term effects of the virus.

Many of us have been concerned about the virus from day one ... however, some of us also say that there needs to be a limit to how much control the government puts on our personal lives. Look at California: a state which has implemented more restrictions than Arizona has. They're one of the COVID hot spots despite all the mandates. That's enough proof that these restrictions aren't working in a positive way. There are other things possibly causing the spike in CA & AZ, such as weather conditions, underlying medical issues, living conditions, and perhaps there are just more idiots per capita in CA & AZ who refuse to wear masks or take precautions. Who knows? All I know is that COVID numbers keep rising, and hospitals are overwhelmed despite all the mitigation efforts.

Originally Posted by FlurryCat

Those that are worried about the economy now should also be concerned with the economy in ten years. I suspect that medical related bankruptcies and long-term disabilities will be through the roof.

But isn't the ACA supposed to help people with those things? Guess not.

[kell490]

On January 11th the link will be put up you can sign up on Maricopa county website for the 1B vaccine if your over 75 years old. https://www.maricopa.gov/5651/Phase-1B

[Eutychus2.0]

Originally Posted by FlurryCat

Most businesses could have operated at something close to normal if people had taken proper precautions, but too many were more interested in making a "statement." [i]How about putting some of the blame for the need to shut down businesses on these people.

Unfortunately comments like this aren’t helpful to actually solving the problem. Unless you have hard data to cite we don’t conclusively know what positive effect “taking more precautions” would have had on businesses.

How has that worked out for California?

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by kell490

On January 11th the link will be put up you can sign up on Maricopa county website for the 1B vaccine if your over 75 years old. https://www.maricopa.gov/5651/Phase-1B

LOL. Good luck with that. There are a few hundred thousand people in that group. At 6K per day at State Farm and only a couple minor sites open, many won't get appointments till summer even if the site does not crash 10 minutes after it goes online. Not to mention that the state only has enough vaccine in its allocation for a fraction of them.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Eutychus2.0

Unfortunately comments like this aren’t helpful to actually solving the problem. Unless you have hard data to cite we don’t conclusively know what positive effect “taking more precautions” would have had on businesses.

How has that worked out for California?

California is hardly an example of a compliant state. In fact, it is a good example of what happens when people ignore the recommendations and regulations of the public health community. But Arizona is even worse, far worse. Arizona has the worst case rate on the entire planet. Back this summer when you maybe were not here, we did a very minor "lockdown" that turned around what was then the worst case rate to the best one within a couple weeks.

But whatever, people everywhere have so-called mask fatigue, the holidays came along, the snowbirds came to town, and its all completely out of control now. So it is protect yourself and hope that this sorry excuse for a state and county (and federal) government can manage to get vaccines out before another ten thousand Arizonans and tourists die and the entire economy collapses.

[Eutychus2.0]

Exciting times, that’s for sure!

Darwinism perhaps at its best.
Then again... Covid is pretty random.

[FlurryCat]

Originally Posted by Eutychus2.0

Unfortunately comments like this aren’t helpful to actually solving the problem. Unless you have hard data to cite we don’t conclusively know what positive effect “taking more precautions” would have had on businesses.

How has that worked out for California?

Not a positive effect, but a minimization of the negative effects.

Link to study on the spread and need for precautions:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2774707

Findings In this decision analytical model assessing multiple scenarios for the infectious period and the proportion of transmission from individuals who never have COVID-19 symptoms, transmission from asymptomatic individuals was estimated to account for more than half of all transmission.

Conclusions and Relevance In this decision analytical model of multiple scenarios of proportions of asymptomatic individuals with COVID-19 and infectious periods, transmission from asymptomatic individuals was estimated to account for more than half of all transmissions. In addition to identification and isolation of persons with symptomatic COVID-19, effective control of spread will require reducing the risk of transmission from people with infection who do not have symptoms. These findings suggest that measures such as wearing masks, hand hygiene, social distancing, and strategic testing of people who are not ill will be foundational to slowing the spread of COVID-19 until safe and effective vaccines are available and widely used.

In the absence of effective and widespread use of therapeutics or vaccines that can shorten or eliminate infectivity, successful control of SARS-CoV-2 cannot rely solely on identifying and isolating symptomatic cases; even if implemented effectively, this strategy would be insufficient. These findings suggest that effective control also requires reducing the risk of transmission from people with infection who do not have symptoms. Measures such as mask wearing and social distancing empower individuals to protect themselves and, if infected, to reduce risk to their communities.

Multiple measures that effectively address transmission risk in the absence of symptoms are imperative to control SARS-CoV-2.

...the new model clearly reinforces the need for proven public health measures, like universal masking, hand-washing and social distancing — all of which protect people against the spread of COVID-19.

[wase4711]

with the influx of idiots from all over the western hemisphere here now, to enjoy the incredible winter weather we are having, there isnt any hope for any strong compliance/enforcement/mandates of any sort; the gubner knows what these tourist dollars mean to the state, and there is no way he will do anything to make those people regret coming here or being here, or hinder them from spending big $$$

All the residents can do is make sure you are doing as much as you can to protect yourself, until the morons leave in March/April..

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by wase4711

with the influx of idiots from all over the western hemisphere here now, to enjoy the incredible winter weather we are having, there isnt any hope for any strong compliance/enforcement/mandates of any sort; the gubner knows what these tourist dollars mean to the state, and there is no way he will do anything to make those people regret coming here or being here, or hinder them from spending big $$$

All the residents can do is make sure you are doing as much as you can to protect yourself, until the morons leave in March/April..

One of the things that brings joy to my heart is the exodus of RVs in early Spring. It will be especially so this year. I truly believe that they are responsible for most of the spread. Not only that, but they are getting vaccines that are distributed based on our population and ignoring the fact that a million of them - all geriatric - are here for the winter.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Serious deflection. Serious whataboutism.

At one time the Governor of this state prohibited local jurisdictions from issuing mask mandates. We're now seeing "how'd that work out for ya."

Each state is supposed to be run by adults. Supposed. Some clearly are not.

Not everything is a joke and your accusation is wrong. I was asking a genuine question. Someone said Arizona should be ashamed - I was asking if other states were doing better (as in a better rollout of the vaccine).