Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Opinion? Explain to me why records inedicate Bush did not receive any pay from March-October 1972? Also tell me why there was no action when he failed to report for his physical and lost his flight status. Those are facts, any other soldier would have been on his way to Vietnam at that point.
His records don't indicate he was AWOL but to actually believe there weren't other forces at work here with all the accounts and records is impossible.
He volunteered for Vietnam? So tell me why he went into the National Guard when he could have went in directly? Certainly they would have accepted him even without his fathers help.
Money and power can change alot of things especially in the military. You made very good points, that once again will not be answered by his followers. Truthfully I'm suprised that he passed the drug test. Oh yeah you can get around that also.
I was not trying to be offensive (and apologize if I did) I just wanted people to know how military promotions work. During the whole ordeal no one noticed or mentioned his rank. Of course civilians would not have noticed this but other military members would.
Admittingly I know very little about purple heart folks, except the benefits that they are entitled to, so I cannot speak on Kerrys.
Someone in an earlier post who obviously had more knowledge then myself attempted to explain the pilot thing. My expertise in the military was medical and not aviation.
no offense taken as i have not served, and i dont know everything, especially how promotions happen. i do know that there are things that would prevent promotion, but not affect a persons ability to receive an honorable discharge. the military isnt that far removed from private industry in regards to moving up the ranks. some people go through military life without being noticed, and dont move up the ladder very quickly, and others get noticed right away, and move up so fast you think they were in a race car.
as for the purple heart deal, my understanding is that you have to receive a certain level of injury as a result of combat to be awarded a purple heart. what that level is i dont know, someone more familiar with that can answer better than i can.
as for flying airplanes, i can tell you that the FAA requires you to go through, and pass, a check flight after reaching 40+ hours of flight training before you can get your private pilots license. and i do know that flying jets like the F102 was not an easy task as it was an unstable aircraft to improve maneuverability, and it had no computer controls to help the pilot maintain control of the aircraft. i also know that just because you have flow aircraft in the past, if you have been away from them for a while, you cant just jump back in and take off like you have been doing it for years. it takes time to relearn everything.
i think it is time to lock this thread as everything here has been rehashed since bush ran for governor of texas in the 90's, and NOTHING WAS EVER FOUND to indicate that bush did not serve in the guard, and did not finish his service with an honorable discharge.
as i have said, until REAL EVIDENCE and NOT conjecture is put forward, i accept bushs service as i accept kerrys service, as i accept gores service.
There are enough records to indicate that there was outside intervention.
If your not interested in this thread you do have a choice evidently the debate is still there.
The purpose of this debate is to find answers to questions if there is something that you don't want to know or acknowledge simply don't read or reply.
My interest in this debate is twofold, first as a veteran and son of a vietnam veteran and american citizen in general I find it disgraceful that someone could pretend to be in the military. This is inspite of what his paperwork states. Finally, I find it disturbing (like most of you should) that his military docuements can be so easiely altered to fit a particular agenda. If he had served his military commitment properly there really would not be a debate now would there? I say this b/c it can cheapen real veterans actual service by a stroke of a pen or by any powerful outside influence.
I overstand that he is no longer in the white house, but look at it this way he still has influence over matters like this. Because of this it bring up the question on how many other politicians and future presidents will falsely use military service to escalate their political careers? And at what cost?
I really believe had Bush had parcipated in the Officer training program and other leadership programs his views on going to war and how it was conducted would have been vastly different and MAYBE we may not have lost so many lives in the process.
We as knowledgeable americans cannot continued to be led into stupidity by the powerful elite and the inept media. We must seek out the truth at any cost and expose it. Our continous alligance to political parties who in reality do not give a rat's dropping to your well being. If you really think about it when was the last politican that rose through the ranks from being homeless or lost their business to being a political leader? They are all wealthy by american standards. Think about it, why would someone who already has money want to be a politician? To make MORE money and to become powerful, at least in their own minds.
Bush and the other rich kids who bought their way into the Air National Guard while over 50 thousand troops died in Viet Nam are REMFs.
Those who served know what the above means.
I can tell you didn't read the previos posts. I linked to an article detailing the servicemen and women who were wounded and died in Viet Nam that were reservists and guardsmen.
Another Bush hater who cannot back up thier lies with facts. Just B.S.
There are enough records to indicate that there was outside intervention.
If your not interested in this thread you do have a choice evidently the debate is still there.
everyone keeps saying there are record to indicate outside intervention, and yet this debate has been going on since bush first ran for governor of texas, and has been rehashed quite often since. if these records truly exist, then why is the debate still going on? if these records truly exist, then why havent they been produced and authenticated by now with as long as this debate has been going on, and with as many people that have looked into this deal?
I can tell you didn't read the previos posts. I linked to an article detailing the servicemen and women who were wounded and died in Viet Nam that were reservists and guardsmen.
Another Bush hater who cannot back up thier lies with facts. Just B.S.
Speaking of BS. Nobody can bring anybody forward (still) saying Bush served with them, but you are convinced that he spent years serving his country.
I went back due the Army's medical structure verses the AF, and I went in the Army in the first place so there would not be a break in service if you MUST know. I brought up my family's military record b/c YOU challenged my loyality to the military. You must have forgotten that part.
As far as Bush's military record is concerned all that I wanted to do is make a point.
The point being is that millitary attendance and even service docuementation can be altered. The other point is that while in, he did nothing thus keeping him from being promoted. His "honorable discharge" means nothing to me, especially after working with vets with disabilities that they suffered while ACTUALLY SERVING and are unable to get the help that they deserve b/c of lameazz politicians like him. All that you say is has an honorable discharge but that still does not make him honorable in many veterans eyes
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime
I was not trying to be offensive (and apologize if I did) I just wanted people to know how military promotions work. During the whole ordeal no one noticed or mentioned his rank. Of course civilians would not have noticed this but other military members would.
Admittingly I know very little about purple heart folks, except the benefits that they are entitled to, so I cannot speak on Kerrys.
Someone in an earlier post who obviously had more knowledge then myself attempted to explain the pilot thing. My expertise in the military was medical and not aviation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime
That in itself is odd, during a war you "volunteered" to go and they deny you? Especially when they are drafting everyone else. Sounds fishy to me also
To repeat, I never challenged YOUR loyalty. I challenged you calling a member of the National Guard a coward.
"records can be altered", is that all you base all your information on.
I have posted statements from the Air national Guard Commander, and you question him. Another snipe at a veteren.
It has now become clear. You have called him a coward for not serving, then you say having gotten an Honorable Discharge is not enough for you.
You don't respect him. I can live with that but, you showed your true colors with that statement, "All that you say is has an honorable discharge but that still does not make him honorable in many veterans eyes."
Nothing anybody posts with data to back it up will be enough for you because of your hate.
Speaking of BS. Nobody can bring anybody forward (still) saying Bush served with them, but you are convinced that he spent years serving his country.
do you remember everyone you worked with 30 years ago? how about everyone you went to school with 30 years ago? there are people who disappear into the background, and even though they are there and doing the job, no one sees them because they are not doing things that stand out.
Speaking of BS. Nobody can bring anybody forward (still) saying Bush served with them, but you are convinced that he spent years serving his country.
I know it's really weird, I serve ONE YEAR in the army guard (12 drills and 2 weeks) and I can bring up a list of at least 20 people that I knew. that list would not include those who remembered seeing me at drills. But for someone to serve 5-6 years and NO ONE noticed the future president of the U.S? That is more then just weird it is practically impossible (especially he being an officer)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
no offense taken as i have not served, and i dont know everything, especially how promotions happen. i do know that there are things that would prevent promotion, but not affect a persons ability to receive an honorable discharge. the military isnt that far removed from private industry in regards to moving up the ranks. some people go through military life without being noticed, and dont move up the ladder very quickly, and others get noticed right away, and move up so fast you think they were in a race car.
