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I agree with you - in the Middle East. I don't approve of what they're doing. And I don't like violent extremists of any kind. But especially here in he USA, not all individuals who espouse any kinds of beliefs of the Koran are violent criminals. When you start out-of-hand condemning each and every one of them as such, you are anathema to the very principles of this country - much like those who decided after Pearl Harbor that every American with slanted eyes should be stripped of their rights and put into concentration camps. And furthermore, by indiscriminately subjecting legal American individuals to punitive treatment on the basis of religious creed, you're really not accomplishing anything with respect to tensions with the Middle East, real terrorist threats, etc.
I'm sure there were a lot of really great Nazi's, too. Probably some very kind grandmas, and some were people that weren't all that committed to the cause, just the "joiner" type.
I don't think there's anything bigoted about being "anti-islam". In fact, I would say right-thinking people who embrace modernity should be "anti-islam." That doesn't meant there aren't some great people who are muslims, just like there were some pretty O.K. Nazis.
I agree with you - in the Middle East. I don't approve of what they're doing. And I don't like violent extremists of any kind. But especially here in he USA, not all individuals who espouse any kinds of beliefs of the Koran are violent criminals. When you start out-of-hand condemning each and every one of them as such, you are anathema to the very principles of this country - much like those who decided after Pearl Harbor that every American with slanted eyes should be stripped of their rights and put into concentration camps. And furthermore, by indiscriminately subjecting legal American individuals to punitive treatment on the basis of religious creed, you're really not accomplishing anything with respect to tensions with the Middle East, real terrorist threats, etc.
Even in the Middle East, Islam is not a form of government. That's a ridiculous statement. You have Qatar a constitutional monarchy (like the UK). Women vote and are guaranteed rights. For example women are not required to wear the abaya. Saudi Arabia requires strict dress and is not democratic. Each Arab/Middle Eastern/Islamic nation is very different.
Even in the Middle East, Islam is not a form of government. That's a ridiculous statement. You have Qatar a constitutional monarchy (like the UK). Women vote and are guaranteed rights. For example women are not required to wear the abaya. Saudi Arabia requires strict dress and is not democratic. Each Arab/Middle Eastern/Islamic nation is very different.
I'm sure there were a lot of really great Nazi's, too. Probably some very kind grandmas, and some were people that weren't all that committed to the cause, just the "joiner" type.
I don't think there's anything bigoted about being "anti-islam". In fact, I would say right-thinking people who embrace modernity should be "anti-islam." That doesn't meant there aren't some great people who are muslims, just like there were some pretty O.K. Nazis.
The membership in the Nazi party was strictly controlled. Pure family lines were necessary. The member had to *look* properly aryan as well. Many people supported the government, swept up in the propaganda and mob mentality, but not all. Watch the movie "Swing Kids". Most of them were either forced into the army and sent to the Russian front or sent to forced labor camps because they did not tow the line. The Nazi government began by removing those who could oppose them. The issue of German guilt can be discussed for a long time but the people who opposed them ended up dead, having fled, or in concentration camps. Either you supported them or didn't. But those who did not call themselves Nazis.
Strictly speaking Nazi's were members of the Nazi party. They were not nice old grandmothers. Most Germans were not though most Germans were supporters. If they did so because they were swept up in the fervor or true believers but that can be debated elsewhere. But party membership was considered a special thing.
Many people are muslims. The include grandmothers and children and people of all sorts of ages. It's not quite the same thing. Nor does not liking the behavior of members of the religion mean you must be anti-muslim. I'm not particularly fond of some aspects of Christianity but don't call myself anti-Christian. I simply don't choose to embrase it.
And when you say your anti-muslim you are saying that you are anti to all of them. You can be against the *acts* and *beliefs* of members but not reasonably against all.
Words have meanings and we need to be careful how we use them.
And when you say your anti-muslim you are saying that you are anti to all of them. You can be against the *acts* and *beliefs* of members but not reasonably against all.
Words have meanings and we need to be careful how we use them.
I agree that words have meaning, and we need to be careful how we use them.
Now show me where I said I was "anti-Muslim," rather than "anti-Islam." (Muslim being a person, Islam being a philosophy.)
Ambient stated that Islam is a form of government. I cleared it up. Read the posts.
I meant your premises weren't related to your conclusion.
Just because there are a variety of governments in the middle east doesn't mean there is no such thing as an Islamic form of government. People simply disagree about what the correct form of an Islamic government should look like. But there can't really be any disagreement that Sharia law covers not only criminal, but political law as well. (Among other things.) There are Islamic Republics, and they are based on an interpretation of Islamic law. There is an Islamic political philosophy far more extensive than what exists in Christianity.
I meant your premises weren't related to your conclusion.
Just because there are a variety of governments in the middle east doesn't mean there is no such thing as an Islamic form of government. People simply disagree about what the correct form of an Islamic government should look like. But there can't really be any disagreement that Sharia law covers not only criminal, but political law as well. (Among other things.) There are Islamic Republics, and they are based on an interpretation of Islamic law. There is an Islamic political philosophy far more extensive than what exists in Christianity.
It actually does surprisingly. Is Christianity a form of government? No of course not. I guess you can argue San Marino or the Vatican City would be examples of Christian governance. Islam is a religion in which governments base some laws on...but it's not a form of government. Monarchies are types of governments. Sharia law doesn't really cover political aspects (hence the differences in states that have Sharia law). You can laws that are based on Islam, but it's not really a form of governance.
I agree that words have meaning, and we need to be careful how we use them.
Now show me where I said I was "anti-Muslim," rather than "anti-Islam." (Muslim being a person, Islam being a philosophy.)
Good point. I stand corrected. By the same measure I could say I was anti-Christian as I don't appreciate some of the practices of some Christians (most especially trying to recruit me. I am quite happy with the Mother and I'm happy for them to be happy with their version of God) But I do not consider myself anti-Christian since only some of the believers practice those things I don't like. That would be implying all did.
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