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so then it is not humanitarian? if it's going to facilitate an organization run like a business, it should be taxed.. I am aware of how tithing can be allocated...
Apparently you're not. Tithing can be allocated as "tithing." Period. If you want to contribute towards the Church's humanitarian efforts (which are enormous, particularly in light of the fact that the its membership accounts for less than .2% of the world's population), you don't specify "tithing" at all. You specify "humanitarian fund."
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My point is.. if you want to have tax exempt status on anything you must be registered as a non-profit organization.. and not be able to receive income through the non-profit status and funnel it to the for profit arm..
Like I say, a business arm to a church doesn't just come about out of nothing.. the money came from somewhere.. and was that income to start the business arm taxed like every other business? we don't know because the lds church keeps it's books secret because they are protected as a religious organization. I agree that CCC will be great for downtown salt lake city.. but I don't like the fact that a monopoly can move in and essentially own and control an entire city's downtown core because they don't have to play by the same rules as every other business. Who else in this economy has 2 billion dollars to blow on a development? The mormon church does...
As I just pointed out to newhandle, I don't even have any strong feelings one way or the other on this issue. I'm only participating on this thread to set people straight when they start spouting off misinformation about where the Church gets its money, and it looks like I've got my hands full just doing that.
As the previous link explains, LDS businesses started when Utah was first settled by the Mormons and have naturally expanded from there. The initial investment was made over a century ago
The Church holds business interests that are primarily an outgrowth of enterprises which were begun when the Church was isolated in the West. The commercial businesses owned by the Church help serve the needs of the Church in accomplishing its mission. The money made from these commercial enterprises is relatively small; the majority of financial resources in the Church comes from the tithes and offerings of Church members.
???? relatively small???
2 billion on a mall is small huh?
regardless, look I'm not mad that they do it.. they should just pay taxes like everyone else in the market has to.. THAT'S ALL.. and we agree on that..
The Church holds business interests that are primarily an outgrowth of enterprises which were begun when the Church was isolated in the West. The commercial businesses owned by the Church help serve the needs of the Church in accomplishing its mission. The money made from these commercial enterprises is relatively small; the majority of financial resources in the Church comes from the tithes and offerings of Church members.
So you're talking about tithing that was paid back in the early 20th century? Things were very, very different back then. Tithing has not been used for commercial enterprises for a long, long time.
Apparently you're not. Tithing can be allocated as "tithing." Period. If you want to contribute towards the Church's humanitarian efforts (which are enormous, particularly in light of the fact that the its membership accounts for less than .2% of the world's population), you don't specify "tithing" at all. You specify "humanitarian fund."
As I just pointed out to newhandle, I don't even have any strong feelings one way or the other on this issue. I'm only participating on this thread to set people straight when they start spouting off misinformation about where the Church gets its money, and it looks like I've got my hands full just doing that.
I used to be mormon, I use the term tithing loosely in referring to whatever people give whether it be allocated to the ward fund (which they don't do anymore) or to humanitarian, or general tithing.. I get it..
You're from the perspective that what you allocate is where it goes, you NOR I can prove that it does... If they want to be tax free, Prove where it's going..
but the lds church is not transparent in the way that the run of the mill non profit organization has to be.. so you nor I can prove what really goes on.. we can just see that they're building massive buildings with hefty price tags NOT for religious purposes, buying up land NOT for religious purposes, Funneling money to fuel propositions in states, so we can all draw our own conclusions.. we could be wrong or right.. but If I was going to vegas, You better believe where my bet would go
I used to be mormon, I use the term tithing loosely in referring to whatever people give whether it be allocated to the ward fund (which they don't do anymore) or to humanitarian, or general tithing.. I get it..
You're from the perspective that what you allocate is where it goes, you NOR I can prove that it does... If they want to be tax free, Prove where it's going..
but the lds church is not transparent in the way that the run of the mill non profit organization has to be.. so you nor I can prove what really goes on.. we can just see that they're building massive buildings with hefty price tags NOT for religious purposes, buying up land NOT for religious purposes, Funneling money to fuel propositions in states, so we can all draw our own conclusions.. we could be wrong or right.. but If I was going to vegas, You better believe where my bet would go
Frankly, I don't really care a whole lot one way or the other. I'm just saying that when people make comments like "which of course are lies," I'm going to call them on it. Why would you expect me not to?
So you're talking about tithing that was paid back in the early 20th century? Things were very, very different back then. Tithing has not been used for commercial enterprises for a long, long time.
Ok.. then the LDS church must prove it... open their books to external auditors...
each time this issue arises with the LDS church they decline.. WHY?
Ok.. then the LDS church must prove it... open their books to external auditors...
each time this issue arises with the LDS church they decline.. WHY?
I don't know why. Why do you accuse people of lying when you have no evidence that they are? I guess it's "guilty until proven innocent" now, huh? I can't decide whether you're just the suspicious type or if it's just that you're a disgrunted ex-Mormon.
Frankly, I don't really care a whole lot one way or the other. I'm just saying that when people make comments like "which of course are lies," I'm going to call them on it. Why would you expect me not to?
because they are lies.. it's already been proven that the church LIED about contributions to prop 8 initially.. while it wasn't what THEY called tithing.. it was THE CHURCH asking members to donate money specifically for prop 8..
The church was involved financially in other propositions in Hawaii and alaska in regards to gay unions, and NEVER asked it's members to specifically donate to those.. so where'd that money come from?? I'm not accusing. I just would like to know
"The Mormon church's organizing and fundraising in last years' election in Alaska, including its last minute donation of $500,000 dollars, which was reported to have been spent on the media campaign, has also been documented. "
I don't know why. Why do you accuse people of lying when you have no evidence that they are? I guess it's "guilty until proven innocent" now, huh? I can't decide whether you're just the suspicious type or if it's just that you're a disgrunted ex-Mormon.
if you're being accused, prove your innocence.. why doesn't the lds church just prove us all wrong by opening their books for analyzing?
believe it or not, I'm open to being wrong.. I just want to see it.. because there's too much evidence to support them lying..
They've already been fined for it in California
regardless of their position, just say.. hey we feel this political action is important to us.. we put money towards it..That's respectable.. even if I disagree..
But don't put money out there, hide behind tax free status, and then when called on it.. close your books up and pay the slap on the wrist fine.. if you have integrity.. you open your books to prove that you're not going to pay one penny of a fine for something you're being falsely accused of..
my beef isn't with mormon people, it's with their church.. it's a local thing.. they have their hands in everything around here and it really angers some...
they're no different than a lot of other church's... but they are very much more secretive.. which naturally makes people suspicious... surely you can understand that
if you're mormon, you obviously have faith that they're doing what they say and defend it..
but for those of us that aren't in the faith camp.. it's rather suspect...
Interesting statement on businesses of the Mormon Church:
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Now, the next question: "Why is the Church in business?"
We have a few business interests. Not many. Most of these were begun in very early days when the Church was the only organization that could provide the capital that was needed to start certain business interests designed to serve the people in this remote area. We have divested ourselves long since of some of these where it was felt there was no longer a need. Included in these divestitures, for instance, was the old Consolidated Wagon and Machine Company, which did well in the days of wagons and horse-drawn farm machinery. The company outlived its usefulness.
The Church sold the banks which it once held. As good banking services developed in the community, there was no longer any need for Church-owned banks.
Some of these business interests directly serve the needs of the Church. For instance, our business is communication. We must speak with people across the world. We must speak at home to let our stand be known, and abroad to acquaint others with our work. And so we own a newspaper, the Deseret News, the oldest business institution in Utah.
We likewise own television and radio stations. These provide a voice in the communities which they serve. I may add that we are sometimes embarrassed by network television presentations. Our people do the best they can to minimize the impact of these.
We have a real estate arm designed primarily to ensure the viability and the attractiveness of properties surrounding Temple Square. The core of many cities has deteriorated terribly. This cannot be said of Salt Lake City, although you may disagree as you try to get to the Tabernacle these days. We have tried to see that this part of the community is kept attractive and viable. With the beautiful grounds of Temple Square and the adjoining block to the east, we maintain gardens the equal of any in the world. This area will become even more attractive when the facility now being constructed on Main Street is completed and the large Conference Center to the north is finished.
Are these businesses operated for profit? Of course they are. They operate in a competitive world. They pay taxes. They are important citizens of this community. And they produce a profit, and from that profit comes the money which is used by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Foundation to help with charitable and worthwhile causes in this community and abroad and, more particularly, to assist in the great humanitarian efforts of the Church. These businesses contribute one-tenth of their profit to the Foundation. The Foundation cannot give to itself or to other Church entities, but it can use its resources to assist other causes, which it does so generously. Millions of dollars have been so distributed. Thousands upon thousands have been fed. They have been supplied with medicine. They have been supplied with clothing and shelter in times of great emergency and terrible distress. How grateful I feel for the beneficence of this great Foundation which derives its resources from the business interests of the Church.
-Gordon B. Hinckley
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, 1995-2008
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