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Um, if someone has payed their dues for what they did to go to prison, then continuing to treat them as scum of society when they have done their part to rehabilitate their image, and become people who can lead productive lives in the every-day world without causing any further issues, is simply a waste of time. These are human beings who have the same issues as anyone else, they need jobs too and the chance to live their lives without roadblocks being thrown in their way.
Um, if someone has payed their dues for what they did to go to prison, then continuing to treat them as scum of society when they have done their part to rehabilitate their image, and become people who can lead productive lives in the every-day world without causing any further issues, is simply a waste of time. These are human beings who have the same issues as anyone else, they need jobs too and the chance to live their lives without roadblocks being thrown in their way.
Then you take care of them. I'll take the employee who was responsible and didn't decide to go robbing. It's one thing to think they deserve a second chance - it's quite another to force others to give it to them.
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBarrow
Then you take care of them. I'll take the employee who was responsible and didn't decide to go robbing. It's one thing to think they deserve a second chance - it's quite another to force others to give it to them.
Nobody is asking anyone to take care of them.
All they're saying is after they have served their penance to society for past ills, give them the opportunity to be economically viable in mainstream America.
What is particulary offensive are the labels such as "sexual offender" which are handed out like candy at a parade. Talk about ostracizing or disenfranchising them from economic viability.
Nobody is asking anyone to take care of them.
All they're saying is after they have served their penance to society for past ills, give them the opportunity to be economically viable in mainstream America.
They do have opportunity. Just not as much as the guy who stayed clean. And rightly so. Employers have every right to make sure they are not hiring criminals, who may very well put them, their employees, and customers at risk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm1964
What is particulary offensive are the labels such as "sexual offender" which are handed out like candy at a parade. Talk about ostracizing or disenfranchising them from economic viability.
That's a whole issue in itself, but a policy such as this only serves as a band aid. I read your posts earlier about too many things being criminalized and that I can agree with.
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,220 posts, read 1,878,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBarrow
They do have opportunity. Just not as much as the guy who stayed clean. And rightly so. Employers have every right to make sure they are not hiring criminals, who may very well put them, their employees, and customers at risk.
That's a whole issue in itself, but a policy such as this only serves as a band aid. I read your posts earlier about too many things being criminalized and that I can agree with.
I see your point and appreciate your reasoned positions.
I'm just worried about our country and what is happening in our government and judicial system. Sometimes it just seems the criminals are running the country and their armed thugs are criminalizing the citizens. it is so much easier to control and manipulate those we label as criminals.
When I read Atlas Shrugged I felt Ayn went to far in her vision of a utopian society driven by capitalist industry but the overuse of Paramilitary force and the abuses of Federal Law Enforcement agencies provide troubling shadows of the Government Oppression she described.
Most ex convicts were convicted of non violent drug crimes. If they are clean, and served their time, why should they be exempt from government jobs? Affirmative action of any kind in the private sector is over the line
I see your point and appreciate your reasoned positions.
I'm just worried about our country and what is happening in our government and judicial system. Sometimes it just seems the criminals are running the country and their armed thugs are criminalizing the citizens. it is so much easier to control and manipulate those we label as criminals.
When I read Atlas Shrugged I felt Ayn went to far in her vision of a utopian society driven by capitalist industry but the overuse of Paramilitary force and the abuses of Federal Law Enforcement agencies provide troubling shadows of the Government Oppression she described.
Policies like the one in the OP however only serve to make more people complacent with the overcriminalization you're talking about. It's a band aid that distracts from the real problem. Like I said, I agree with you on that issue fully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
Most ex convicts were convicted of non violent drug crimes. If they are clean, and served their time, why should they be exempt from government jobs? Affirmative action of any kind in the private sector is over the line
They should. But rather than cripple the ability to screen out real criminals therefore making everybody suffer, we should fix the actual problem by decriminalizing those non violent drug "crimes".
They should. But rather than cripple the ability to screen out real criminals therefore making everybody suffer, we should fix the actual problem by decriminalizing those non violent drug "crimes".
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,220 posts, read 1,878,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBarrow
Policies like the one in the OP however only serve to make more people complacent with the overcriminalization you're talking about. It's a band aid that distracts from the real problem. Like I said, I agree with you on that issue fully.
They should. But rather than cripple the ability to screen out real criminals therefore making everybody suffer, we should fix the actual problem by decriminalizing those non violent drug "crimes".
How about those labelled as sexual offenders for sexting?
How about those labelled as 'violent' offenders for DV charges by overzealous police and prosecutors?
How about those felons charged with resisting arrest because they couldn't lay flat while being beaten?
Until our criminal justice system is reformed I have little faith in the labels they stick on people. As such I believe criminal background checks discriminate unfairly and economically disenfranchise viable people from the marketplace.
How about those labelled as sexual offenders for sexting?
How about those labelled as 'violent' offenders for DV charges by overzealous police and prosecutors?
How about those felons charged with resisting arrest because they couldn't lay flat while being beaten?
Until our criminal justice system is reformed I have little faith in the labels they stick on people. As such I believe criminal background checks discriminate unfairly and economically disenfranchise viable people from the marketplace.
Those are all direct problems with our criminal justice system. To do anything besides fixing them is a useless band aid that will only serve to make people more complacent with being unfairly given criminal records, and further delaying the inevitable point at which the public rises up against the real oppressors.
It's essentially one small step towards instituting a police state - but keeping people just barely happy enough that they don't fight back.
You also have to keep in mind that employers can take any and all information regarding their records into consideration. Their judgments are not based on a single "yes" or "no" value. And that although the cases you pointed out may be unjust, some of the people with criminal records, are, well, actual criminals.
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