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Americas plan works fine, the problem is, over many years it has been opting for the "worlds" plans causing the American plan to appear as if it is failing. You don't take a free society, then place a bunch of controls on it stripping it of its freedom and then claim the free system doesn't work. It is absurd. What is failing is the governments intrusion, plain and simple and anyone paying attention to the facts of the issues sees this.
Not sure how you figure that the American plan works fine???????
There is FAR more control over your health needs by the private insurance and pharmaceutical companies than in virtually every other country in the World.
The American system is Broken beyond repair.... wise up and move forward instead of standing still.
Americas plan works fine, the problem is, over many years it has been opting for the "worlds" plans causing the American plan to appear as if it is failing. You don't take a free society, then place a bunch of controls on it stripping it of its freedom and then claim the free system doesn't work. It is absurd. What is failing is the governments intrusion, plain and simple and anyone paying attention to the facts of the issues sees this.
Namander, I think you give too much credit to for-profit insurance. You leave that group out altogether. They are a big problem because of this simple reason "greed" "pay dividends". And it didn't start yesterday but decades ago. Through the years it has become clear that the best interest of the patient is not what the insurance company is interested in. The VA, medicare, and medicaid exists only because these groups were dumped from for-profit insurance rolls. And that is only the tip of the iceberg, it gets worse.
This is also true. And it is this stated by Normander that confuses many on this issue. I think it does stifle healthcare reform which needs reforming in a very bad way.
Oh I agree it does too.
I just think that a lot of the problems are caused by the government.
There are two conflicting general positions here:
1. Thinks the government is the problem.
2. Thinks government is the solution.
Each time, when you evaluate the involvement in a given industry by government, #1 points to the government and says it is due to their involvement that the problems exist while #2 points to private industry and claims there is not enough government involvement and that is why the problem exists.
This brings about a very significant issue of contention because one of little government involvement and individual liberty is the basis of our entire system, constitution, and nations function. So if we push for more government, mandates and dictations by it, we are essentially trying to change our entire concept of a free system and people.
That is fine if people are making an argument for the latter, but the problem is that they continue to argue as if they are supporting individual liberty and freedom while pushing for such. This is a falsehood and why it is devious when it is discussed in the public. If they simply came out and said
"Look, we think we have the right to take away your liberties as we see fit in order to advance our causes for what we think is best for all"
Then at the least, people would be making an informed decision knowingly disregarding the liberties of others in their pursuit and the backlash that comes from such would not be a surprise from either side.
Personally, I am sick of people telling me how restricting my freedoms, dissolving my liberties in the name of their ideal is supporting it. It is absurd beyond belief.
Namander, I think you give too much credit to for-profit insurance. You leave that group out altogether. They are a big problem because of this simple reason "greed" "pay dividends". And it didn't start yesterday but decades ago. Through the years it has become clear that the best interest of the patient is not what the insurance company is interested in. The VA, medicare, and medicaid exists only because these groups were dumped from for-profit insurance rolls. And that is only the tip of the iceberg, it gets worse.
For profit insurance works, but the problem is that the system has overloaded it. That is, government has intruded and more and more things are being demanded for coverage. Insurance is meant for disaster, things that are unreasonable for an average person to pay and based on the occurrence of such being uncommon or rare.
People have turned insurance into a service that covers everything from getting your toe nails clipped by a doctor, to a check up for a cold. We have overloaded the system through government regulation and intrusion. So, these companies use the loopholes of government to get excessive payouts. Doctors file government claims for costs so far above a reasonable cost because they know they will only get a very small portion of it and it won't be paid for a very long time.
My wife used to deny claims constantly for the government ones. Not because she wanted to, but because the government agencies required her to do so. It has become a game of bureaucracy, and so expensive and costly to run that there is no chance for competition in it. Basically, the insurance companies have a sweet deal with the government lackeys.
That isn't even getting into the TORT laws concerning insurance companies which also was a government intrusion causing insurance companies to get slammed by fraudulent case after case continuing to drive up costs for insurance and pushing doctors to behaviors that force them to do so many stupid tests to cover all of the angles so they do not get sued.
Government is the problem here. Responsible consumers trump private business every time, but if the consumer isn't responsible... well... now you see the problem.
Not sure how you figure that the American plan works fine???????
There is FAR more control over your health needs by the private insurance and pharmaceutical companies than in virtually every other country in the World.
The American system is Broken beyond repair.... wise up and move forward instead of standing still.
Read again.
The American system works fine, but we are not an American system at the moment. The system isn't currently free. It is inundated by massive government involvement and has been since the late 30's. More and more government control has create crony capitalism, waste, increased costs, backhanded deals, etc...
The American system works fine after you take all the non-American aspects out of it.
The problem is though, you and I have a different view as to what is honest. You have a socialized European mindset that believes the health of each individual is the responsibility of all. You think a health care system is a failure if people can't afford it because they didn't plan, were irresponsible and took lots of risks. That has nothing to do with the system and everything to do with the individual, but since you do not view individual responsibility as a part of the issue, the idea that someone through their choices resulted in such is alien to you.
Now I am sure you will give me all kinds of examples where it couldn't be planned for, that the issue was out of the blue, born with, etc..., but as I said, those are limited cases and if you are to say that this is common, well... you again are refusing to consider the responsibility of the individual and that is the real problem here.
So creating a system where everyone is excused of their responsibility won't solve the issues, as many countries who have been running these programs are finding out. The government back alley deals and loop holes still go on, waste still happens, costs dramatically increase (no competition, so no incentive to beat out another) and there is no incentive to be healthy, pay attention to ones earnings and the like. Things will continue to get worse and worse.
Such is the nature of responsibility. It is the same with housing, the same with savings for retirement, the same for anything. Two ways to solve it.
"Promote" healthy plans and processes and let people suffer the consequences of not preparing each individually.
Take away their freedom of responsibility and dictate to them what is best for the sake of them.
I will take the risk of " lose job=lose insurance=I'm still sick=I'm now broke=bankruptcy=I'm still sick" over the loss of freedom, every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I've been there and no you wouldn't. I keep hearing this " you need to be responsible BS all the time. Now, I realize you don't know me but I am a 54 year old responsible husband of 30 years who started paying taxes at 14 and delivered newspapers before that. As others know my wife who worked for 30 years became very ill and it is at that exact time when the insurance companies started acting irresponsible. Long story short my wife is on medicare and I have no insurance because we are still recovering from 6 figure debt. I can keep rambling on and on but it is akin to beating the same old horse. I will say I learned alot and how the system works and it works by denial.
I've been there and no you wouldn't. I keep hearing this " you need to be responsible BS all the time. Now, I realize you don't know me but I am a 54 year old responsible husband of 30 years who started paying taxes at 14 and delivered newspapers before that. As others know my wife who worked for 30 years became very ill and it is at that exact time when the insurance companies started acting irresponsible. Long story short my wife is on medicare and I have no insurance because we are still recovering from 6 figure debt. I can keep rambling on and on but it is akin to beating the same old horse. I will say I learned alot and how the system works and it works by denial.
Insurance companies are not without fault, I am not giving them a blanket pass, but I have seen government personally do more harm than I have private companies, and I have been privy to the inner workings of both over my time.
When you say "insurance companies started acting irresponsible", how do you mean? Did they violate their contract with you? A company as such can only do a thing like that if it is agreed upon by you through the contract (an exit clause you may have missed), which is why shopping for insurance policies is as important as purchasing a home, often more so.
Here is the thing though, I have seen government agencies do some things that you would think were only in the movies. Neither is 100% certain, but if a private agency wrongs you, there is always the government to go to and appeal the wrong doing. If the government does you wrong, you are simply out of luck, hence the importance of keeping them separated.
And yes... yes I would. Seriously, you don't know me, but I would rather die free, than live under rule. Life is too short, too important to live as a slave.
. Neither is 100% certain, but if a private agency wrongs you, there is always the government to go to and appeal the wrong doing. If the government does you wrong, you are simply out of luck, hence the importance of keeping them separated.
I've been there and no you wouldn't. I keep hearing this " you need to be responsible BS all the time. Now, I realize you don't know me but I am a 54 year old responsible husband of 30 years who started paying taxes at 14 and delivered newspapers before that. As others know my wife who worked for 30 years became very ill and it is at that exact time when the insurance companies started acting irresponsible. Long story short my wife is on medicare and I have no insurance because we are still recovering from 6 figure debt. I can keep rambling on and on but it is akin to beating the same old horse. I will say I learned alot and how the system works and it works by denial.
I'd "rep ya" but I'm all out for today.
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