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BMI? Who's problem is that? Certainly not mine or yours or anyone else's!!
BMI?! That's the argument? Good lord Ozzie! Then it sounds like we don't need healthcare reform....we need people to get up off their lazy asses and DO SOMETHING ACTIVE! Watch what they eat!
Ask me if I have sympathy for these folks! If what you say is true, then my sympathy for people just went down the schitter!
You are something else. It was one example of hundreds of reasons that people don't qualify for your "cheap" insurance. Give me a call if you'd like to have a non-message board discussion. You would've never started the thread had you known the complexity of the issue. Yes, it's even more than pulling harder on your boot straps.
But could they cut something out of their monthly budget and/or discretionary spending?
I'm not confident that most American's even know how to effectively budget, much less put that budget into action in order to afford their priorities.
Just saying that they don't have the money according to wage statistics doesn't mean they don't actually have the money.
You definitely have a point there; however, I think maybe based on your knowledge of what's out there, you might be missing the fact that there's a signficant segment of the population that does not have access to "affordable" healthcare. And by "affordable", I still think it is pretty costly. As a federal worker, I have access to "affordable" healthcare. For myself, it runs me about $90 per paycheck. For a family plan, it is costing me over $220 per paycheck. That is with the employer kicking in 75% of the premium. And I am a GS-13 with a good wage and a husband who has a good job.
Take this same insurance policy. It is probably heavily discounted in the first place because of the HUGE amount of federal workers and the large pool.
This insurance plan, if I total my premium and my employer's share is roughly $1000 per pay period.
Let's say that I work in a job that does not have this easy access to affordable healthcare but I'm lucky enough to stumble onto this reasonable policy on my own and get accepted into it. I'm obviously not a GS-13, but maybe I work in retail or I work two decent part time jobs, or I work in an office for a very small business. I dunno, how would someone in this position come up with $1000 per pay period to insure their family? In some cases, I don't think it comes down to getting rid of the cell phone or cable packages. $1000 a pay period is a LOT of money, even for me.
But could they cut something out of their monthly budget and/or discretionary spending?
I'm not confident that most American's even know how to effectively budget, much less put that budget into action in order to afford their priorities.
Just saying that they don't have the money according to wage statistics doesn't mean they don't actually have the money to pay for heatlh insurance.
Watch any poor American shopping and getting the most for their Dollar and tell me they don't know how to budget.
Ask any poorer American who has 2/3/4 jobs at low low pay if they don't know how to budget.
Watch any unemployed or poor American looking embarrassed as they use their food stamps or vouchers in a store as a queue lines up behind them if they don't know how to budget etc etc etc etc.
Budgeting is a big part of poorer American's daily lives and to suggest that they somehow go on spending sprees for high price items or can even afford health care is not being in the real world..... They cut their spending to the bone and then are accused of not being able to budget to afford priorities ..
Priorities are a struggle and luxuries are out of the question.. get real here!
You are something else. It was one example of hundreds of reasons that people don't qualify for your "cheap" insurance. Give me a call if you'd like to have a non-message board discussion. You would've never started the thread had you known the complexity of the issue. Yes, it's even more than pulling harder on your boot straps.
Ozzie, I am well aware of the complexities of the industry. That's why I forthrightly stated in the OP that there are "exceptions" to the notion that health insurance is "affordable."
You should know by now that when I start a thread, I'm not compelling people to believe that I have all the answers. I am compelling people to challenge my assertions. It doesn't mean I have all the answers. It means I want to bring about discussion. Indeed, we have over 30 pages of discussion, which means that I have accomplished the goal.
Now, as part of that discussion, you brought forth the idea that BMI is leading reason as to why people are not insurable. Do you agree or disagree with me that BMI is of the most resolvable issues for those who are turned down for insurance? Afterall, BMI is a personal problem, not a medical problem (in most cases).
Since you brought up the subject, I thought you'd be interested in expounding on the issue. Perhaps I was wrong.
Watch any poor American shopping and getting the most for their Dollar and tell me they don't know how to budget.
Ask any poorer American who has 2/3/4 jobs at low low pay if they don't know how to budget.
Watch any unemployed or poor American looking embarrassed as they use their food stamps or vouchers in a store as a queue lines up behind them if they don't know how to budget etc etc etc etc.
Budgeting is a big part of poorer American's daily lives and to suggest that they somehow go on spending sprees for high price items or can even afford health care is not being in the real world..... They cut their spending to the bone and then are accused of not being able to budget to afford priorities ..
Priorities are a struggle and luxuries are out of the question.. get real here!
Then the question becomes....."Why are so many American's living on such thin margins?"
Aren't you one of those who remind us that we live in the most prosperous country in the world? So what gives?
You definitely have a point there; however, I think maybe based on your knowledge of what's out there, you might be missing the fact that there's a signficant segment of the population that does not have access to "affordable" healthcare. And by "affordable", I still think it is pretty costly. As a federal worker, I have access to "affordable" healthcare. For myself, it runs me about $90 per paycheck. For a family plan, it is costing me over $220 per paycheck. That is with the employer kicking in 75% of the premium. And I am a GS-13 with a good wage and a husband who has a good job.
Take this same insurance policy. It is probably heavily discounted in the first place because of the HUGE amount of federal workers and the large pool.
This insurance plan, if I total my premium and my employer's share is roughly $1000 per pay period.
Let's say that I work in a job that does not have this easy access to affordable healthcare but I'm lucky enough to stumble onto this reasonable policy on my own and get accepted into it. I'm obviously not a GS-13, but maybe I work in retail or I work two decent part time jobs, or I work in an office for a very small business. I dunno, how would someone in this position come up with $1000 per pay period to insure their family? In some cases, I don't think it comes down to getting rid of the cell phone or cable packages. $1000 a pay period is a LOT of money, even for me.
Very valid points.
But it makes me wonder.....why are so many people living on such thin margins? Working two part time jobs? Retail? Is this what America has become?
Ozzie, I am well aware of the complexities of the industry. That's why I forthrightly stated in the OP that there are "exceptions" to the notion that health insurance is "affordable."
You should know by now that when I start a thread, I'm not compelling people believe that I have all the answers. I am compelling people to challenge my assertions. It doesn't mean I have all the answers. It means I want to bring about discussion. Indeed, we have over 30 pages of discussion, which means that I have accomplished the goal.
Now, as part of that discussion, you brought forth the idea that BMI is leading reason as to why people are not insurable. Do you agree or disagree with me that BMI is of the most resolvable issues for those who are turned down for insurance? Afterall, BMI is a personal problem, not a medical problem (in most cases).
Since you brought up the subject, I thought you'd be interested in expounding on the issue. Perhaps I was wrong.
Here's my take on BMI.
High BMI puts you at a significant risk for heart disease and diabetes. Both of which are expensive health issues. A definite risk for insurers. I do not think that you should be denied insurance if you have a high BMI but you should be offered a reasonable, yet more expensive, healthcare plan. They already do this with auto insurance. Once you become a high risk driver, you generally get kicked out of regular insurance. Most states require all insurance companies to offer a certain number of policies to high risk drivers. They join a pool and you are able to buy insurance from this pool. It's not cheap; however, most people elect to buy it rather than not drive. It is expensive but no so expensive that the average person cannot pay it if they make some adjustments. I don't think that's the case with some of these insurance premiums.
But it makes me wonder.....why are so many people living on such thin margins? Working two part time jobs? Retail? Is this what America has become?
To me, that's the larger question.
During this recession, this is definitely what America has become. Living in the DC area has really insulated me to the facts because we still have quite a "boom" here of professional jobs, but it has become the reality in a lot of areas.
I totally expect it will be the reality for my daughter when she graduates college in 2014. I have no idea where she will be able to work as it is so "tight" right now. She is working many retail jobs while in college and she is thinking she will hang on to them an morph them into lower management retail jobs upon graduation until she can find a contact in the professional world. She's not good in Science, Tech, Engineering, or Math so this really narrows her options in this current market.
High BMI puts you at a significant risk for heart disease and diabetes. Both of which are expensive health issues. A definite risk for insurers. I do not think that you should be denied insurance if you have a high BMI but you should be offered a reasonable, yet more expensive, healthcare plan. They already do this with auto insurance. Once you become a high risk driver, you generally get kicked out of regular insurance. Most states require all insurance companies to offer a certain number of policies to high risk drivers. They join a pool and you are able to buy insurance from this pool. It's not cheap; however, most people elect to buy it rather than not drive. It is expensive but no so expensive that the average person cannot pay it if they make some adjustments. I don't think that's the case with some of these insurance premiums.
Not a bad idea. But, I tend to think its a better idea for people to get a handle on their BMI. The updside is potentially cheaper and more access to health insurance.
I seriously have no sympathy for people who are denied health insurance due to BMI.....a condition that *most* people have 100% control over.
Not a bad idea. But, I tend to think its a better idea for people to get a handle on their BMI. The updside is potentially cheaper and more access to health insurance.
I seriously have no sympathy for people who are denied health insurance due to BMI.....a condition that *most* people have 100% control over.
I agree with you on that and, as they say: IN A PERFECT WORLD... But we know that doesn't happen. And we know that there are going to be people that will not ever lose weight for whatever reason. It's the same as bad drivers. In my opinion, it's a LOT easier to control bad driving than it is your weight. Yet we still offer an option to bad drivers. And they manage to afford that option. The incentive for them to improve is the lowered premiums associated with good driving habits.
Who knows, maybe put the high BMI'ers in a health plan with an extra charge (rider) for bad habits with a bill each month that says "lowering your BMI can make your monthly premium go down by 20%" or something like that.
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But we know that doesn't happen. And we know that there are going to be people that will not ever lose weight for whatever reason. It's the same as bad drivers. In my opinion, it's a LOT easier to control bad driving than it is your weight. Yet we still offer an option to bad drivers. And they manage to afford that option. The incentive for them to improve is the lowered premiums associated with good driving habits.
