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I guess we can go back in forth about this case but to me it boils down to what happened during the fight or as the prosecution has taken to referring to the fight as "the struggle"
We have no witnesses to who actually started the fight. By starting the fight I'm strictly referring to who threw the first punch. However who started the fight maybe irrelevant under SYG laws. We do hear Zimmerman at the end of the 911 call saying he (Trayvon) was walking towards him.
Now to the fight itself we have two witnesses to the fight. One witness "John" had this to say:
Quote:
A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.
"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
Read more: Trayvon Martin shot and killed in neighborhood altercation (http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1tSJV6ArC - broken link)
This report was first published on Feb. 27, well before the media firestorm that would take place a month later.
The 2nd witness, a 13 year old boy saw this:
Quote:
In addition, an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin.http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-mar...9#.T52Ja6tSTfU
The young boy's mother has sought to downplay what her son saw for his safety but he may be summoned by the defense and compelled to testify.
So we have two independent witnesses to the fight whose stories gel with each other and with Zimmerman's.
I need to know how the pro-Trayvon folks explain or discredit these witnesses? Or are we simply ignoring them on are march to a conviction?
Also this question is to tiluha since it appears you are a lawyer or at the very least one of the more rational frequent and most importantly knowledgeable posters about this case.
Do the defense witnesses have to testify in open court? Would their names have to be entered into the record? I ask because I think these two witnesses may balk at testifying in Zimmerman's defense for fear of their safety. I think their fear would be justifiable. I'm familiar with the constitutional right of the defendant to confront his witnesses but does such a right confer to the prosecution?
It's the same source I used to post the timeline of events earlier in this thread. The problem is that the law is never black & white..or maybe it is. Why would a man who shot an unarmed teenager to death be released on self defense, but this woman got 20 years for firing a shot into the air to scare her abusive husband?
This woman shot her husband after he tried to strangle her, or so she claims. She might be lying, but he wasn't even injured. Maybe it's because she went back into the house? Still, 20 years seems like a very severe penalty if nobody was hurt.
I thought her legal analysis was good. The timeline I thought still has too much guesswork, maybes, possiblys. Like the forensics, the who was where when is something I'll wait on.
Okay, I have to say something about this "neighborhood watchman" comment. Throughout this entire case, people keep calling Zimmerman the "NW Captain" as if that's some sort of official title. It isn't. He even said he was not "on patrol" that evening. (from his own statements & per the police chief) He said he was driving to the store to run errands when he saw Martin walking and thought he looked suspicious.
Now, what separates Zimmerman from anyone else? Let me know if you can find a license that calls him "Neighborhood Watch Captain." I can call myself Miss Universe but it doesn't make it so.
In fact, most people I know would be a little embarrassed to claim that as an accomplishment, since we have little old ladies on golf carts doing the same job.
Sorry, but I just had to finally spit this out, since one would imagine "neighborhood watch" is some kind of official position in law enforcement from the way many of you are posting.
I agree. In fact, one of the "facts" that keeps changing for the Zimmerman defenders is this whole NW issue, as I said up above.
GZ defender:Zimmerman was the NW capt. and should have been respected as such.
Response: Well, he was violating NW rules.
GZ defender: He wasn't really on duty in a NW capacity.
OR What NW rules did he violate? Responder posts rules. Well, he wasn't really acting in NW capacity.
Round and round it goes. IF GZ was acting as the NW capt. he should not have been armed, should not have followed TM AT ALL, let alone once the police told him not to. If he was acting as a private citizen, he cannot use the "NW Captain deserves respect" mantra to go off and shoot someone.
This part of the statute could be interpreted in a couple of ways...
“Course of conduct” means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short...
What does a "period of time" and "however short" constitute, 1 minute, 1 day, 1 year, that's my question...
I noticed that part being subjective. I'm inclined to believe if the prosecution actually believed what Zimmerman did that night was stalking they would charge him with it.
Odds are that Trayvon was stoned at the time???
LMAO. That one is really funny.
And, of course, we'll never know what, if any, drugs or alcohol Zimmerman may have ingested because the Sanford P.D. did NOT do any kind of drug or alcohol test on him, THE SHOOTER.
Okay, I have to say something about this "neighborhood watchman" comment. Throughout this entire case, people keep calling Zimmerman the "NW Captain" as if that's some sort of official title. It isn't. He even said he was not "on patrol" that evening. (from his own statements & per the police chief) He said he was driving to the store to run errands when he saw Martin walking and thought he looked suspicious.
Now, what separates Zimmerman from anyone else? Let me know if you can find a license that calls him "Neighborhood Watch Captain." I can call myself Miss Universe but it doesn't make it so.
In fact, most people I know would be a little embarrassed to claim that as a lifelong achievement, since we have little old ladies on golf carts doing the same job.
Sorry, but I had to finally spit this out, since one would imagine "neighborhood watch" is some kind of official position in law enforcement from the way many of you are posting.
And how many of them know that the NWA specifically states that one isn't to carry a loaded weapon? Another fine detail on the list of poor choices made by Zimmerman that night. Perhaps they equate possession of a firearm with moral superiority and authority.
Okay, I have to say something about this "neighborhood watchman" comment. Throughout this entire case, people keep calling Zimmerman the "NW Captain" as if that's some sort of official title. It isn't. He even said he was not "on patrol" that evening. (from his own statements & per the police chief) He said he was driving to the store to run errands when he saw Martin walking and thought he looked suspicious.
Now, what separates Zimmerman from anyone else? Let me know if you can find a license that calls him "Neighborhood Watch Captain." I can call myself Miss Universe but it doesn't make it so.
In fact, most people I know would be a little embarrassed to claim that as a lifelong achievement, since we have little old ladies on golf carts doing the same job.
Sorry, but I had to finally spit this out, since one would imagine "neighborhood watch" is some kind of official position in law enforcement from the way many of you are posting.
You don't need a license to be a watchman. The watch captain in this case didn't need any official blessing from the state, it's a private community group. And so what if he was not on duty that night? Can a cop not prevent a crime unless he or she is officially on duty? A doctor can't help a choking kid if he isn't on duty? What difference does it make whether the watch captain was on duty or coming home from the store? He was still carrying out his function.
I agree. In fact, one of the "facts" that keeps changing for the Zimmerman defenders is this whole NW issue, as I said up above.
GZ defender:Zimmerman was the NW capt. and should have been respected as such.
Response: Well, he was violating NW rules.
GZ defender: He wasn't really on duty in a NW capacity.
OR What NW rules did he violate? Responder posts rules. Well, he wasn't really acting in NW capacity.
Round and round it goes. IF GZ was acting as the NW capt. he should not have been armed, should not have followed TM AT ALL, let alone once the police told him not to. If he was acting as a private citizen, he cannot use the "NW Captain deserves respect" mantra to go off and shoot someone.
How does any of this impact the case? He has a CCW and he can walk around armed as a private citizen. It may matter in a civil case in what capacity Zimmerman was acting in but I fail to see how it impacts the case criminally.
Florida Statutes Chapter 784 ASSAULT; BATTERY; CULPABLE NEGLIGENCE
784.048 Stalking; definitions; penalties.— snip...
(1) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Harass” means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress in such person and serves no legitimate purpose.
(b) “Course of conduct” means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, evidencing a continuity of purpose. Constitutionally protected activity is not included within the meaning of “course of conduct.” Such constitutionally protected activity includes picketing or other organized protests.
(c) “Credible threat” means a threat made with the intent to cause the person who is the target of the threat to reasonably fear for his or her safety. The threat must be against the life of, or a threat to cause bodily injury to, a person.
You need to continue on to sub. 2 for the def. of stalking.---
'(2) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking...'
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That one is really funny. 
