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There shouldn't be a code in place for holding a Bible study. Note - he stopped trying to build a church and went "down" to the level of allowing his friends and neighbors in to study the Bible. They were in a structure approved by the city - that met all requirements for occupancy and had permits - and the neighbors continued to complain.
it wasnt about him running a bible study as such, it was about him having a building that DID NOT meet the required codes for what he was using it for. his permits said he was building a game room. and since he is running a bible study from that game room, it doesnt meet the codes put in place by the city. he lied on his permit applications.
as i said, if it had truly been about him running a bible study, i would be outraged about him being arrested.
Keep in mind he moved into a neighborhood with a HOA(CC&R). The neighborhood was zoned to allow churches but the permit he got from the county was basically for a large storage building with no permits for electrical or plumbing. If he would've followed the code to the letter it would've been built back then. But he wanted to do things his own way.
There shouldn't be a code in place for holding a Bible study. Note - he stopped trying to build a church and went "down" to the level of allowing his friends and neighbors in to study the Bible. They were in a structure approved by the city - that met all requirements for occupancy and had permits - and the neighbors continued to complain.
Maybe the city or the neighbors weren't motivated by religious intolerance - but people seem to be complaining a little too much over nothing. There was no blocking of driveways - or any harm being done to the neighbors - they didn't like what a man was doing in his own home and became busybodies.
The day that our activities in our own homes have to pass muster by our neighbors when they aren't being harmed can't be described anyway else but as bad.
Let's see. Regardless of any future building or not, he planned to run a CHURCH off of his residential property. That was always his plan. Hell, the property - his residential home - isn't technically owned by him. It's owned by his incorporated CHURCH: Harvest Christian Fellowship Community Church. Here's the property record if you don't believe me:
Part of the reason he picked this property was so that he could build out on it's 1.5 acres - he'd previously been running his 70 congregant CHURCH out of his old home, and he wanted it to have it's own building, but he didn't have the money to purchase a stand alone CHURCH (apparently the available ones ran in the millions).
He initially wanted to build a stand alone CHURCH on the property complete with gym, basketball court, and day care center. Do you really think that's appropriate??? Personally, I don't find running a 70 congregant church out of your living room in a residential area appropriate, let alone expanding it as he wanted. In any case, his neighbors didn't, and when they found out he was already constructing it under a fraudulent permit that allowed only an unplumbed, unelectrified shed, they turned him in. He then apparently went ahead and got another fraudulent permit to build a garage extension to his home that he then used to house his CHURCH. Not only does this in fact harm his neighbors, it puts it's congregants in a building that doesn't meet basis safety code for consistent large gatherings.
The man's a fraud and a criminal with no concern whatsoever for how his actions effect his neighbors and other people. Not surprising considering he's declared himself and Emissary of God exempt from worldly laws who's nonetheless been convicted of felony drive-by shooting and has a second conviction (after he'd given up crime and become a pastor) for impersonating a police officer.
Last edited by hammertime33; 07-07-2012 at 03:58 PM..
I would complain about the full volume part - but sure - the property belongs to the owner - they can do what they like on it.
How does broadcasting a call to prayer harm anyone? A decibel meter could be used to be sure that it doesn't hurt anyones eardrums.
Sorry, it's his property and he should be able to do whatever he likes, regardless of whether or not it bothers you.
He should be able to have the call to prayer at whatever volume he wants, regardless of what the neighbors think, it's his property. You can always wear earplugs or move.
Sorry, it's his property and he should be able to do whatever he likes, regardless of whether or not it bothers you.
He should be able to have the call to prayer at whatever volume he wants, regardless of what the neighbors think, it's his property. You can always wear earplugs or move.
When did I say it would bother me?
I listen to calls to prayer at mosques occasionally when I am in the area of one - more people should do stuff like that - its great.
Anything being broadcast at full volume produces a potential safety hazard - and could cause harm to people in the area - it is reasonable to restrict decibel levels for such a use of property.
Why are you mentioning mosques anyway - do you have something against Muslims?
I listen to calls to prayer at mosques occasionally when I am in the area of one - more people should do stuff like that - its great.
Why are you mentioning mosques anyway - do you have something against Muslims?
How would you feel if a 70 person mosque, with its daily activities, was built (whether stand alone or attached to an already existing building) 50 feet from your front door? Oh, and they didn't build any parking - or have the mosque sound and fire insulated.
Would the increased traffic, decreased parking for your guests, increased noise, the safety concern of having 70 strangers coming and going all the time, and the decrease in your house's value not bother you?
How would you feel if a 70 person mosque, with its daily activities, was built (whether stand alone or attached to an already existing building) 50 feet from your front door? Oh, and they didn't build any parking - or have the mosque sound and fire insulated.
Would the increased traffic, decreased parking for your guests, increased noise, the safety concern of having 70 strangers coming and going all the time, and the decrease in your house's value not bother you?
Why should it bother me?
Besides - this is irrelevant to the discussion at hand - you harp on what Salman's original intentions were - conveniently ignoring that he scaled back his plans - and was only holding a bible study on the property. His originals intentions to build a church have nothing to do with the reality of the meeting when he was charged with a crime. The attack on his private property rights, freedom of assembly, and freedom of worship that are illustrated by this case seem to go right over your head.
This issue is about liberty - not hypothetical mosques.
I would say its HIS house he can do whatever the hell he wants to do with it. That's what I would say. I believe in this really weird thing called property rights and private property.
Well, you can't say anything. They were running a church out of their home, not allowed. Christians aren't exempt from the law regardless of their delusions of being children of the big man. The big man doesn't work for California.
"City officials in San Juan Capistrano, Calif. say Chuck and Stephanie Fromm are in violation of municipal code 9-3.301, which prohibits “religious, fraternal or non-profit” organizations in residential neighborhoods without a permit. Stephanie hosts a Wednesday Bible study that draws about 20 attendees, and Chuck holds a Sunday service that gets about 50." http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cali...in-their-home/
My neighbors tried to have weekly "garage sales" which were really a home thrift store. It didn't take long for them to get shut down, maybe 2 months. It happens, even to babies of God.
Freedom of religion means the freedom from being treated differently than anyone else in this country despite your religion or lack of it. This includes Christians.
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