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His people? As in, the Iraqi Sunnis? I sure don't recall that. But if you check the news from Iraq from the past few days or weeks, you'll find plenty of reports of bombings, assassinations, and other incidents in the ongoing Iraqi civil war. That's because several armed factions are currently fighting each other over control of certain areas of the country, which is what happens when a multi-factional country collapses. An absolute nightmare.
Similarly, in Syria, there is no "the rebels" - there are different factions, some of whom fight each other as much as they do the government. The government was a minority faction to begin with, but probably still has enough firepower to hang on to those areas where it is the dominant faction. Arms are flooding in to all factions from various sources, such as across the Turkish border, or the Iraqi border. It's a messy, multi-sided civil war.
We saw the same thing in Lebanon. Lots of factions all trying to control the same land, like rats in a sack. It gets bloody.
If the US were to fracture, I assure you - it would NOT be "the people" vs. "the government." It would be the people vs. the other people vs. the other people... perhaps ten layers deep, followed by the government, with the government using different factions to attack other factions.
I hate how politics ruin everything, and so will refrain from commenting on the larger aspects of this thread. However, your post raises an interesting point that most do not seem to consider. If there ever were to be an armed fracture in the U.S., it really would be many sides against each other. You left out Bosnia, which is probably the best example of what would happen in the U.S.
I don't usually repost long post but this one deserves it. These are just a few incidents and I am sure the anti gun will say, "yeah, but, look at how many people are killed or injured by guns....". Lives are saved by guns and I prefer to have the ability to arm myself should I so desire. When my government stops making me feel like they are plotting to disarm me, I may feel differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazeeKrewe
Mass Killings Stopped by Armed Citizens
The Pearl, Mississippi school shooting was stopped by the vice principal Joel Myrick with a Colt .45. Pearl High School Link
Plans to slay everyone in the Muskegon, Michigan, store and steal enough cash and jewelry to feed their "gnawing hunger for crack cocaine" fell apart for a band of would-be killers after one of their victims fought back. Muskegon Shooting Link
The mass church shooting in Colorado Springs was stopped by the shooter being shot by a church member with a CCW permit. New Life Church Link
The Santa Clara gunshop shooting in 1999 was stopped by an armed citizen after the shooter declared that he was going to kill everyone. Police found a list of intended victims in his car. Only the perpetrator, Richard Gable Stevens was shot. Santa Clara Gunshop Link
The December, 1991, Aniston, Alabama defense where a CCW holder stopped armed robbers who were herding employees, customers, and his wife into a cooler. He shot both robbers, killing one. Aniston Shoney's Shooting Link
July 13, 2009, in Virginia at the Golden Food Market: The gunman tried to shoot several people, was stopped by a CCW carrier. Golden Food Market Shooting Link
In Early Texas, armed citizen Vic Stacy shot and stopped a deranged man who had just murdered two neighbors and was firing at police with a rifle. Stacy made a very long shot with his revolver, three times as far as the perpetrator was from the police officer, who had an AR-15 type rifle. Early Texas Peach House Shooting Link
Abraham Dickman had a history of anger against employees of the AT&T store in New York Mills, New York. On May 27th, 2010, he walked into the store with a .357 and a list of six employees. He shot the first employee, but was stopped from further attacks when Donald J. Moore, an off duty police officer who was allowed to carry his own handgun when not on duty, drew and fired his .40 caliber, killing Mr. Dickman before he could fire any more shots. AT&T store Link
College Park, GA, May 4, 2009. Two gunman entered a party and ordered the men separated from the women. Then they started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey. When one of the assailants prepared to rape a girl, a student was able to access a handgun and engage the two attackers in a firefight, driving one off and killing the other before the thug could rape his girlfriend.
“I think all of us are really cognizant of the fact that we could have all been killed,” said Bailey. College Park Link
Another off duty police officer stopped the Trolley Square shooting with his personal handgun. He stopped the killing and contained the shooter until police reinforcements arrived and ended the situation. Trolley Square Shooting Link
Winnemucca NV shooting, 25 May, 2008 The shooter, Ernesto Villagomez, entered the Players Bar and Grill and killed two people. He reloaded and was continuing to shoot when a citizen with a concealed carry permit shot him and stopped the killing. Winnemuca Shooting Link
Parker Middle School Dance Shooting 14 Year old Andrew Jerome Wurst Killed one person and wounded three others when he was confronted by James Strand who subdued Wurst with a shotgun and held him until police arrived. Parker Middle School Dance Shooting LinK
Destiny Christian Center Shooting, April 24, 2012 Kiarron Parker rammed his car into another in the church parking lot, got out and attempted to kill multiple church members. He was only able to kill one before a member of the congregation, the nephew of the lady killed, and an off duty police officer, drew his handgun and shot Parker, stopping the killing. Destiny Christian Center Shooting LinK
Tyler Courthouse shooting, 2005 While police officers were involved in this shooting before and after Mark Alan Wilson intervened, no more people were killed after he shot the shooter, who had body armor, and who was able to return fire and kill the CCW holder, Wilson. Tyler Courthouse Shooting Link
Clackamas Mall Shooting I include this story because it is recent and has been getting some interest on the net. This case is not as clear as the others listed. This incident is similar to the more common defensive uses of guns because the mere display of the gun was enough to defuse the situation. We can never know if the shooter decided to commit suicide because he was confronted by Nick Meli, the CCW holder, as the shooter is dead. However, many mass shooters commit suicide when they know that armed resistance is at hand. Clackamas Concealed Carry Showdown Link
These shootings rarely made the national news. Of course, when a mass shooting is stopped by an armed citizen, there are not as many victims. This leads to the charge that it would not really have been a “mass shooting”.
If having a gun saved more lives than it takes then the USA wouldnt have a much higher murder rate than other countries where gun laws are tighter - simples!
If having a gun saved more lives than it takes then the USA wouldnt have a much higher murder rate than other countries where gun laws are tighter - simples!
That is untrue. In other countries, people tend to obey laws to a different extent than they do in the USA.
There aren't very many murders in some Arab countries involving guns (take out the terrorist activities) but in some of those countries they have beheadings, cut off limbs and so on as punishments for lesser crimes.
So, using your logic, can we assume that if the US also used beheadings and the hacking off of limbs then gun laws might be followed and more effective?
If a law already exists that says murder is illegal, how can another law dictating what tool can be used to commit the murder reach the desired goal? Isn't the goal to reduce the murder rate? Once you decide that the only way to reduce the murder rate is to restrict the ownership of guns, it is a self fulling circle of ideas.
Again, if we follow your logic using other countries as models, perhaps the implementation of harsher penalties for lesser crimes and fewer appeals and so on would get criminals to obey gun laws too.
What those of you who support more gun controls have never answered or dance around anytime when asked, is how you intend to get criminals or those without a criminal record but who decide to become criminals, into obeying any laws.
Isn't there a law against making explosive devices? That didn't stop what happened in Boston did it? So just what is your plan?
So from an historical standpoint, do you unregulated gun proponents believe Wyatt Earp and other early West marshalls failed to quell violence by not allowing guns to be brought into town?
So by this logic, if everyone in this country was armed, the murder rate would go down? Okaaaay....
A large population of rural USA is armed, it is also very safe.
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Just a question
