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Take no s*** from men. Hmm, by the same rote, should a father then teach his son to back down from women? To alway defer to a womans judgement and way of things? Being as I learned the hard way that being the "nice guy" is a path to personal Hell, I have taught my son not to take s***from women. To be his own man, and to stick by his convictions. Not to be afraid to speak his mind, and stand by his principals. I won't see him go through what I did, giving 20 years of his life, working like a dog, with zero mutual respect.
No, he wont get trapped, the way I did, because of a misguided sense of being a gentleman, and what that actually means. Feminism has destroyed the male/female relationship. Preaching equality, and practicing domination, with refusal to submit bringing on the pain. Living under threats of your life being destroyed, constantly badgered to do "better" with no respect or gratitude when you do so. Just an EXPECTATION, to do even more.
It has been said, on this thread, that there are a lot of bitter men out there. Sad, but true. I can't blame them. Being bitter is never a good thing, but, with the things that many men endure, it's easy to get that way. Better to be able to see the signs of women like this, and move on before the claws can come out. Mutual respect, mutual gratitude, acceptance of shortcomings, with gentle guidance to help overcome them, love. This is the makings of a good relationship. Neither men nor women should need to worry about "putting up"or or not, withs***".
Your post, on the surface, seems to advocate a female mindset of "the hell with what a MAN tbinks and feels. I ain't putting up with ANY MANS s***"!!!. Nice. That is not strength, thats just, straight up, disrespect, out of hand. And folks wonder what makes so many men bitter.
I'm curious - do you have kids? Daughter? Son?
A father should teach his children of both genders to have self-confidence, give respect but take no sh*t from anyone, and be assertive. What's so complicated about that? Males and females are both human.
As to your comment about you having being a gentleman - exactly what do you define as gentlemanly behavior? Is it one or more of these:
1) Open the door for the female? (You should open the door for females and males - everyone should)
2) Pay for dinner? (Whoever makes the most money should pay for dinner, or the bill should be split)
3) Take off your jacket and put it over a puddle so the female doesn't get her shoes wet? (Both should go around the puddle or take off their shoes and walk through it together)
Or is there something else that you mean by gentlemanliness? Do you mean pleasant conversation? Everyone should have pleasant conversation with everyone. Do you mean obsequiousness? There's no need for that. Plain old kindness to people will suffice.
If I'm wrong in these things, please explain in detail what you mean by the gentlemanly behavior you professed to display and landed you in a rough situation. I'm guessing you were in a horrific marriage, but so are many women. Horrific marriages are not examples of good marriages. Don't interpret horrific marriages to mean that all marriages are bad. A lot of marriages are awesome!
Also, your attitude seems to be one of blaming the world for your troubles. No offense but that smacks of narcissism - "I'm so good and everyone else is so bad." There are very few marriages in which only ONE individual is to blame for the marriage being a disaster. Usually it's both. Sometimes it's 1, sure. Maybe you're in that group, I don't know. I had a bad marriage, but we were both to blame. Him for expecting me to be a robot and behave in all kinds of ways that would heal his emotional problems, and me for allowing him to expect that of me rather than get out of the marriage. I should've kicked him to the curb asap. I didn't, because I wanted a bad marriage to work.
I disagree that men and women need not be worried about being this way and that. Marriage involves 2 people, and both should discuss things, try to resolve conflicts, and try to work together. Marriage does not involve clones. It involves 2 humans which are totally different in background, personality, experience, genetics, etc. It requires some work, and involve a lot of mutual respect. That work should not include abuse.
It IS a "fetish" thing to some extent. I don't have the outlook that everyone should be gentle to everyone, it's good for society to have a mix of personality types.
What men look for specifically in foreign wives from a distance is that they're low-hanging fruit, and that such women will look up to the man as a sort of savior, a knight in shining white armor. That's emotionally very important to some men ...... not the submission, but to be looked at as a hero.
Thing is this, Woof, some men might WANT to be a savior or a knight, but women don't need a savior or a knight. Women need a PARTNER, someone to partake of life with, someone to laugh with, someone to be there for and who will be there for them. One day one is down, and the other will help them, and vice versa. The couple is a unit, not a situation where there is a damsel in distress out of a fairy tale, and the man comes to rescue her from the dragon. If that's what certain men need, well, hell, work it out in the bedroom playacting whatever. But in real life? That won't work for long. She'll pretend for a while, and maybe for a longer while if she's getting money and residency out of it, but it won't last.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,171,154 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua
Thing is this, Woof, some men might WANT to be a savior or a knight, but women don't need a savior or a knight. Women need a PARTNER, someone to partake of life with, someone to laugh with, someone to be there for and who will be there for them. One day one is down, and the other will help them, and vice versa. ......
Not the same at all - because the obedient Asian woman can leave when she chooses, plus she is usually getting money off the man (in some form or another).
In other words, in order to be attractive a woman MUST OBEY.
F that, I must be the most unattractive woman alive. I wonder how I got my kids
A father should teach his children of both genders to have self-confidence, give respect but take no sh*t from anyone, and be assertive. What's so complicated about that? Males and females are both human.
As to your comment about you having being a gentleman - exactly what do you define as gentlemanly behavior? Is it one or more of these:
1) Open the door for the female? (You should open the door for females and males - everyone should)
2) Pay for dinner? (Whoever makes the most money should pay for dinner, or the bill should be split)
3) Take off your jacket and put it over a puddle so the female doesn't get her shoes wet? (Both should go around the puddle or take off their shoes and walk through it together)
Or is there something else that you mean by gentlemanliness? Do you mean pleasant conversation? Everyone should have pleasant conversation with everyone. Do you mean obsequiousness? There's no need for that. Plain old kindness to people will suffice.
If I'm wrong in these things, please explain in detail what you mean by the gentlemanly behavior you professed to display and landed you in a rough situation. I'm guessing you were in a horrific marriage, but so are many women. Horrific marriages are not examples of good marriages. Don't interpret horrific marriages to mean that all marriages are bad. A lot of marriages are awesome!
Also, your attitude seems to be one of blaming the world for your troubles. No offense but that smacks of narcissism - "I'm so good and everyone else is so bad." There are very few marriages in which only ONE individual is to blame for the marriage being a disaster. Usually it's both. Sometimes it's 1, sure. Maybe you're in that group, I don't know. I had a bad marriage, but we were both to blame. Him for expecting me to be a robot and behave in all kinds of ways that would heal his emotional problems, and me for allowing him to expect that of me rather than get out of the marriage. I should've kicked him to the curb asap. I didn't, because I wanted a bad marriage to work.
I disagree that men and women need not be worried about being this way and that. Marriage involves 2 people, and both should discuss things, try to resolve conflicts, and try to work together. Marriage does not involve clones. It involves 2 humans which are totally different in background, personality, experience, genetics, etc. It requires some work, and involve a lot of mutual respect. That work should not include abuse.
I have three children. Two sons one daughter. The oldest son and the daughter are adopted, the youngest, our own child. There is a huge difference in personality between the older two and the youngest, but I came in a lot later with the former two, they were eight and ten, when I came into the picture.
As to what I consider the behavior of a gentleman, there are many facets to this. Thereare, of course, those cliche' things you listed. However, on the deeper side of that lies my view of things. Imparted by my Dad to me.
First, and foremost, is to be commited, because you WANT to. Not out of a feeling of just doing what everbody thinks you should do. To listen to what your mate has to say and how she feels. Genuinely listen, and think about it. To compromise, and never insist, or bypass her, and to think of her first, and foremost, because you WANT to. To, willingly, sacrifice, for the good of the relationship, and feel good about it, even if others think your crazy for the magnitude of what you sacrifice.
A gentleman is a protector, and defender. Willing to lay down his very life, in defense of his family, against all comers. And he knows, in his soul, he is fully willing to do, just that. A gentleman is a provider, doing whatever is needed, to ensure the safety, comfort, physical and mental well being, and happiness of his mate and children. Working as hard as he can, doing anything he has to do, no matter how nasty or menial, and be damned with foolish pride. He stives to be a better man, because love for his lady makes him want to. A gentleman respects his mates feelings and opinions, even when they clash with his own, and can and will, set his feelings and opinions aside, should it be required of him, to keep harmony. However, he has the strength, to stand firm, if he believes that setting his principals aside will be harmful to the marriage and family.
A gentleman, is never afraid or unwilling, to admit when he is wrong, and accepts the consequences, for improper behavior on his part. By the same token, he does not crow like a rooster, when he is proven right, and does not hold his mates mistakes against her. His forgiveness, should his lady be in the wrong in any matter, to which disagreement arose, is to be taken for granted. He does not judge, he never gloats. He, simply, moves on.
So, these are a few, of my taught and learned rules of conduct.for a gentleman. I am hardly narcissistic. I am quite socially introverted, in point of fact, and have zero illusions that my shortcomming and failures can be blamed on anyone but me.
I have learned, that a gentleman can adhere to my aforementioned rules of conduct, without being a slave to them. The latter was my mistake, as I should have stood more firmly, in many matters, instead of putting my feeling and opinions aside, in a misguided interpretation of what sacrifice, for the good of the relationship, should have limits drawn to. I am, no longer, bitter, over how and why, things flew south. Oh, I was, for a spell. But I realized, as many men, in my situation do, that dragging that around, is unnecessary, and unbearable, weight.
When I say, "don't take any s***, it's just a crass and colloquial, way of saying, "there are limits to how much you are willing to compromise or give in to". At the same time, if you are proven wrong, even if you were , firmly, convinced you were right, play your hand, and fold. By the same token, do not use being right, to beat the issue to death. Move past it, and resolve it, as a commited team. Mistakes WILL happen. But never assign blame. Accept what is. What else, can you do,??
My response, to your post, leading to this conversation, was driven by a perceived tone, on my part. Particular wording, and your use of the happy happy joy joy emoticon, to punctuate the "women take no s***from men gaffe, just hit a nerve. I did state, that this was a SUPERFICIAL, interpretation, in a vain attempt to garner a civil response, and give you a chance to clarify. Apparently, I struck a nerve, as well. Albeit unintentional, and, quite possibly, misguided. Nevertheless, I am still, quite, open to continued dialouge on the issue.
If you dont know about it why do you persist with the unsubstantiated biased agenda driven commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua
I don't know about that. For starters, not all males have the fetish of being attracted to a far eastern stereotype of submission. Second, far eastern looking women do NOT idolize Caucasian males. It's not some trend or something, so come off your high horse there and crash land back on earth.
I have three children. Two sons one daughter. The oldest son and the daughter are adopted, the youngest, our own child. There is a huge difference in personality between the older two and the youngest, but I came in a lot later with the former two, they were eight and ten, when I came into the picture.
As to what I consider the behavior of a gentleman, there are many facets to this. Thereare, of course, those cliche' things you listed. However, on the deeper side of that lies my view of things. Imparted by my Dad to me.
First, and foremost, is to be commited, because you WANT to. Not out of a feeling of just doing what everbody thinks you should do. To listen to what your mate has to say and how she feels. Genuinely listen, and think about it. To compromise, and never insist, or bypass her, and to think of her first, and foremost, because you WANT to. To, willingly, sacrifice, for the good of the relationship, and feel good about it, even if others think your crazy for the magnitude of what you sacrifice.
A gentleman is a protector, and defender. Willing to lay down his very life, in defense of his family, against all comers. And he knows, in his soul, he is fully willing to do, just that. A gentleman is a provider, doing whatever is needed, to ensure the safety, comfort, physical and mental well being, and happiness of his mate and children. Working as hard as he can, doing anything he has to do, no matter how nasty or menial, and be damned with foolish pride. He stives to be a better man, because love for his lady makes him want to. A gentleman respects his mates feelings and opinions, even when they clash with his own, and can and will, set his feelings and opinions aside, should it be required of him, to keep harmony. However, he has the strength, to stand firm, if he believes that setting his principals aside will be harmful to the marriage and family.
A gentleman, is never afraid or unwilling, to admit when he is wrong, and accepts the consequences, for improper behavior on his part. By the same token, he does not crow like a rooster, when he is proven right, and does not hold his mates mistakes against her. His forgiveness, should his lady be in the wrong in any matter, to which disagreement arose, is to be taken for granted. He does not judge, he never gloats. He, simply, moves on.
So, these are a few, of my taught and learned rules of conduct.for a gentleman. I am hardly narcissistic. I am quite socially introverted, in point of fact, and have zero illusions that my shortcomming and failures can be blamed on anyone but me.
I have learned, that a gentleman can adhere to my aforementioned rules of conduct, without being a slave to them. The latter was my mistake, as I should have stood more firmly, in many matters, instead of putting my feeling and opinions aside, in a misguided interpretation of what sacrifice, for the good of the relationship, should have limits drawn to. I am, no longer, bitter, over how and why, things flew south. Oh, I was, for a spell. But I realized, as many men, in my situation do, that dragging that around, is unnecessary, and unbearable, weight.
When I say, "don't take any s***, it's just a crass and colloquial, way of saying, "there are limits to how much you are willing to compromise or give in to". At the same time, if you are proven wrong, even if you were , firmly, convinced you were right, play your hand, and fold. By the same token, do not use being right, to beat the issue to death. Move past it, and resolve it, as a commited team. Mistakes WILL happen. But never assign blame. Accept what is. What else, can you do,??
My response, to your post, leading to this conversation, was driven by a perceived tone, on my part. Particular wording, and your use of the happy happy joy joy emoticon, to punctuate the "women take no s***from men gaffe, just hit a nerve. I did state, that this was a SUPERFICIAL, interpretation, in a vain attempt to garner a civil response, and give you a chance to clarify. Apparently, I struck a nerve, as well. Albeit unintentional, and, quite possibly, misguided. Nevertheless, I am still, quite, open to continued dialouge on the issue.
NVPlumber - What you're describing as being the behavior of a gentleman, is simply the behavior of a caring human being, someone truly worth being with. Those are noble qualities everyone should have, not merely men, and if it helps to think of it as gentlemanly, then by all means. I think that women also should be equally respectful, loving, giving, and committed to a relationship. Maybe what it boils right down to is that everyone needs to be less materialistic and more caring?
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Those are noble qualities everyone should have, not merely men, and if it helps to think of it as gentlemanly, then by all means. I think that women also should be equally respectful, loving, giving, and committed to a relationship. Maybe what it boils right down to is that everyone needs to be less materialistic and more caring?
