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Old 08-23-2013, 02:34 AM
 
41,823 posts, read 45,460,397 times
Reputation: 17759

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
51.9%, not 53 and 49.6%, not 49.
It's 52.8 and 49 according to Wiki.

Quote:
What the point in fudging the numbers and giving Reagan a full extra percent and and taking away a half of a percent from President Obama ?
I rounded 2/10 of one percent, shoot me.

Quote:
Your Bush argument makes no sense as well
I'm not making any argument, I'm poking a stick in your eye.

Quote:
Anyways, you are just proving my point. a couple of percent separate the 2 of them.
And despite that Reagan has one the largest margins of victory in history in his seconds election and Obama loses votes. Again that's becsue Reagan was Reagan.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:49 AM
 
41,823 posts, read 45,460,397 times
Reputation: 17759
Just to add if it weren't for Iran Contra we wouldn't be discussing this at all. Reagan's approval is hovering around 50% during that, Obama has been hovering around 50% for many of the last few years and he doesn't have a huge scandal to blame for it.

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Old 08-23-2013, 04:39 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,416 posts, read 18,252,040 times
Reputation: 8947
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
In terms of policy, they did just about the same thing.

There's a lot of things taken out of context and twisted up in your post. Cite your remarks and you'll put together a more accurate statement and realize how far it falls from the way in which you have currently presented it.
Care to elaborate? Your post is nothing but empty rhetoric. What has he said that is "out of context?"

The OP has described Reagan and his approach accurately. The difference between Reagan and Obama is that Reagan loved America, and he loved liberty. The same cannot be said for Obama. Obama neither loves America, nor does he think people should be free. Obama is all "government," and he sees himself as a "ruler," not a leader.

But, the President of the United States is not to be a "ruler." He is not to make law, but instead, he is to see that laws enacted by Congress (representatives of the people), are faithfully executed. Obama has refused to see that laws are "faithfully executed" if he disagree's with them; i.e., the Defense of Marriage Act, to name one, which he openly opposed, and instructed his DOJ not to defend it.

Obama also thinks that he may choose to alter laws, or not implement laws, as he sees fit. This is what he is doing with the "Affordable Care Act." But, it is not within the authority of the President to delay implementation of laws. That power rests solely with Congress, the elected representatives of the people.

Obama despises the Constitution, and seeks ways to go around it. Reagan loved the Constitution, and defended it.

What's your view of America, and our system of government? Do you understand what the Constitution does and why it is important to defend it? Or, do you, like so many Democrats, think it is too restrictive (of government) and see it as an obstacle?

Our Constitution says that the purpose of government is to secure our rights. Do you think that Obama is interested in securing our rights, or does he have a different agenda?
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:53 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,416 posts, read 18,252,040 times
Reputation: 8947
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I'm not going to argue the point about policies but Obama will never will be comparable to Reagan. Reagan inspired an entire country, he brought this country together. How a leader is perceived is just as important as their policies, people need to believe in what you stand for. They need to trust you. They need to know you have their back.

When Reagan spoke it was like watching a Rocky movie as a kid, you just felt the energy and could believe in what he was saying. With Obama you get him attacking the Supreme Court during a State of the Union address, that's not leadership.
Obama is not a leader. Obama is a dictator. Obama doesn't know how to lead, nor does he care to. He made this very clear in his statement, "I won."
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:58 AM
 
7,359 posts, read 5,002,921 times
Reputation: 3135
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Reagan wasnt a better leader, Democrats are simply not obstructionist when we are in the minority or not in the oval office.
Sorry, but reality doesn't agree with that assertion. Reagan collaborated with the leaders of the Democrat party. Obama does not collaborate with Republicans.

Obama makes a speech saying the Republicans won't compromise and are being obstructionist, and liberals just nod their heads in agreement. But that doesn't make it true. Making constant speeches about how bad the opposing party is and how they won't agree with you isn't leadership. Doing an interview and referring to the opposing party as the "enemy" isn't good leadership. Making speeches against corporations and banks isn't leadership. Calling American citizens "bitter clingers" isn't leadership. Threatening to go around congress if they don't do what you want isn't leadership. Saying the police acted stupidly without even knowing the facts first isn't leadership. Saying that denying healthcare to people is the Republicans' holy grail isn't leadership. Blaming the previous administration for problems over and over and over again isn't leadership. Obama is thoroughly partisan. That's fine and appropriate for the campaign trail. But Obama never stops doing it. A good leader switches from campaign mode to governing mode once he's elected. Obama never has. He's a bad leader.
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:59 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,777 posts, read 12,581,575 times
Reputation: 5646
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Go back to your first post and put everything in context. You'll see how twisted the OP is.
True. Obama never went on "an apology tour," and has been discredited by the act checkers. Mr. Obama believes in America just as much as Mr. Reagan did. Virtually everything the OP asserted is opinion not facts.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:01 AM
 
20,950 posts, read 17,454,359 times
Reputation: 10270
How dare you mention Reagan in the same thread title as the "moron in chief"!
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,777 posts, read 12,581,575 times
Reputation: 5646
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
Sorry, but reality doesn't agree with that assertion. Reagan collaborated with the leaders of the Democrat party. Obama does not collaborate with Republicans.

Obama makes a speech saying the Republicans won't compromise and are being obstructionist, and liberals just nod their heads in agreement. But that doesn't make it true. Making constant speeches about how bad the opposing party is and how they won't agree with you isn't leadership. Doing an interview and referring to the opposing party as the "enemy" isn't good leadership. Making speeches against corporations and banks isn't leadership. Calling American citizens "bitter clingers" isn't leadership. Threatening to go around congress if they don't do what you want isn't leadership. Saying the police acted stupidly without even knowing the facts first isn't leadership. Saying that denying healthcare to people is the Republicans' holy grail isn't leadership. Blaming the previous administration for problems over and over and over again isn't leadership. Obama is thoroughly partisan. That's fine and appropriate for the campaign trail. But Obama never stops doing it. A good leader switches from campaign mode to governing mode once he's elected. Obama never has. He's a bad leader.
Obama doesn't collaborate with the Republicans? You haven't been paying attention and this is an example that he does:
Boehner: I got 98 percent of what I wanted - CBS News

You can also deny GOP obstructionism but when the head of the GOP in the Senate proclaims, "our number one objective is to make mr. Obama a one term president," it's clear. Moreover, the GOP has filibustered more bills than any Senate in history.

Then, you have Tea Party Senate Candidate Says Compromise Means Democrats Agree With Republicans (VIDEOS) -
Quote:
The definition of compromise is when two sides meet in the middle on an issue. But the Indiana Tea Party candidate who defeated long-time Republican Senator Richard Lugar on Tuesday night has his own definition of the word. In Richard Mourdock’s small mind, compromise is when Democrats agree with everything Republicans want.
One can not deny the undeniable.

Last edited by MTAtech; 08-23-2013 at 05:10 AM..
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:08 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,416 posts, read 18,252,040 times
Reputation: 8947
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Go back to your first post and put everything in context. You'll see how twisted the OP is.
It isn't twisted, and you can't seem to explain why you think it is. The OP has articulated well what Reagan was about. Why can't you defend your position?
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:23 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,777 posts, read 12,581,575 times
Reputation: 5646
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
It isn't twisted, and you can't seem to explain why you think it is. The OP has articulated well what Reagan was about. Why can't you defend your position?
The OP said, "Times are different but much the same. Country was in a mess back then and now. Carter left it for Reagan and Bush left it for Obama. So what does a leader do?? Reagan went out and told the world how great America was and will be at every chance. The American dream can be achieved. He took on the biggest threat not with a war but with idea's. The wall came down and that made every liberal very upset. Why they can't even tell anyone. Reagan spoke of responsibility, accountability, family and country something liberals can't ever imagine. A great leader. A man who loved his country."

Reaganists credit the fall of the USSR to Reagan but the USSR fell via its own weight. There was no Reagan policy that caused it. On responsibility, Reagan is responsible for tripling the debt. On accountability, his Administration carried out an illegal war in Central America and stonewalled the investigation. He sold chemical weapons to Iraq that were used on the Kurds. He sold weapons to Afghan fighters to use against Russia. Those fighters became the Taliban.
Family? Reagan was divorced and was said not to be a supportive father.(http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/bo...anted=all&_r=0) In any case, nobody can claim that Obama is anything but a fine father to his daughters. In addition, although calls from the right-wing that "Obama hates America," are absurd. Obama loves America as much as Reagan did.

Oh, the OP characterizes liberal views on the Berlin Wall. Liberals were not "upset" when the wall came down. The OP must not of paid attention in history class. The first president to criticize the wall was that liberal, President John F. Kennedy.

The OP is also wrong about the times being much the same. No they aren't. In Reagan's time, political bipartisanship meant something. It was an era in which Democrats and Republicans agreed on basic values and could cooperate across party lines. Today, conservative Republicans do not agree on America's basic values, such as progressive income taxes and a social safety net.

Basically, the OP is loose with facts and heavy on unfounded Reagan lionization.

Last edited by MTAtech; 08-23-2013 at 06:14 AM..
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