The 2nd amendment was placed there to protect the people from a tyrannical government. (cocaine, crimes)

[Patton360]

Originally Posted by dv1033

You mean uphold based on how YOU believe the Constitution should be interpreted.



As it has already been pointed out an armed rebellion (Shay's Rebellion) has failed in the US post American revolution era. Free speech and the right to assemble has been FAR more effective in getting govt change than the barrel of a gun.

What kind of government change? You mean the liberal kind where the government grows to behemoth levels and a huge chunk of the population is dependent on taxpayer largesse for survival? Oh wait. We've passed that stage, haven't we?
The type of change to which you refer has always involved the government simply throwing more tax money around to quiet you down. Nothing changes.

[Patton360]

Originally Posted by Robert_J

Intent is covered in the Federalist Papers It's some very interesting reading.

That would require the leftist/statists in here to actually read something other than the works of Noam Chomsky, Robert_J.
Good effort though.

[Patton360]

Originally Posted by steven_h

Progressive is just like Affordable, it's a word used to describe the exact opposite of a thing. The political class does this every day without conscience.

Take Prop 37 GMO labeling bill. It was fought with more than $50M poured into it by BIG AGRA and the largest food giants. The name they used to fight it: Stop the Deceptive Food Labeling Scheme <<<the polar opposite of the truth.

The reason they can get away with it; people who think they know everything and are well informed. <<<also the polar opposite of the truth.

UnAffordable Healthcare Act
Anti Gun Safety Advocates
Alliance for InJustice
American Anti Constitution Society for Reinterpreting Law and Policy
American Institute for Social InJustice

It goes on and on. Whenever a lobbying group is started you can bank on it being named the polar opposite of the intent.

Here are some more leftist definitions, showing what the terms really mean to them.

Assault Weapon: Any firearm that Dianne Feinstein thinks looks scary, regardless of how it operates.

Bias: Any view held by a conservative. (A label leftists never apply to themselves).

Bipartisan: Making conservatives cave in, repeatedly.

Bitter Clingers: Civilians who refuse to be disarmed.

Coalition: A group or groups that exclude(s) the participation and opinions of conservative or libertarian groups.

Common Sense: Leftist agenda, on leftist terms, and on leftists' timetable.

Common Sense Gun Laws: Civilian disarmament.

Compound: Any house outside of city limits that is owned by either a Kennedy or a Survivalist.

Concerned Citizens: People who agree with the leftist agenda. All others are Radical Right Wingers.

Compromise: Forcing you to agree with the statist agenda.

Consensus: Using Focus Groups and other tools to drag everyone into agreement with the leftist agenda.

Crisis: Any event, however small, that is an excuse for more government.

Dead White Male: The originators of all human suffering who we must denigrate at every opportunity.

Debt (public): Money that we spent that we didn't have, but which doesn't matter, because we can always print more.

Debt Ceiling: The convenient fiction that there is a limit to what we can spend on Programs. Revised annual or semiannually, as needed, following false protestations and then Compromise (see definition above).

Dialog: A mono-directional lecture from the Ivory Tower to the plebeian masses. They are then told that they "have a voice."

First Amendment: Freedom from any mention of Christianity in schools. (But not Wicca or Islam, which should be part of the new school curriculum.)

Freedom: The freedom to do only what leftists tell you what you can do.

Gun Buy-Back: Paying 10 cents on the dollar for something that government never owned, and then destroying it at taxpayer expense.

Gun Control: People control, dissent control, and civilian disarmament.

The Gun Lobby: Gun owning citizens.

Gun Show Loophole: Two guys in the same state, privately transacting the sale of a used gun, like they've always done.

Hate Speech: Saying something critical of the leftist agenda. standing up for morality, or otherwise speaking the truth.

Mean-Spirited: People who want to keep what they earn.

Militia Movement: Two or more citizens who have similar gripes and who each own a gun.

Patriot Movement: Anyone who dares to speak out against statism.

Second Amendment: An obsolete part of the Constitution that protects the National Guard's right to keep weapons.

Sniper Rifle: Scoped deer rifle.

Sporting Firearms: The humble-looking guns that leftists haven't tried to ban yet.

Weapons Cache: A gun collection consisting of more than three guns.

[MTAtech]

Originally Posted by Patton360

^^This.^^

Of course, leftists (i.e. statists) would never acknowledge that our own government could do anything bad to its own people. They live in fantasy land, ignorant of world history and the propensity for government to become a stern master over its "subjects".

That's merely a strawman argument. What so-called "leftist" believe is that the rule of law is strong enough to handle government that doesn't serve the people. We have elections and impeachment to deal with leaders that become tyrannical. That's why there is no provision to overthrow the government in te constitution.

What those who believe that the 2nd Amendment gives THEM the right bring arms against the government is that they don't like the outcomes of elections. Well, in a democracy sometimes the voters elect people you don't like.

[no1brownsfan]

Originally Posted by Patton360

The second amendment guarantees all the others. Without an armed population, the government can have carte-blanche to do as it pleases.

It doesn't get any simpler than this!

[bUU]

Originally Posted by MTAtech

What those who believe that the 2nd Amendment gives THEM the right bring arms against the government is that they don't like the outcomes of elections. Well, in a democracy sometimes the voters elect people you don't like.

This is really the crux of the matter: Neocon and faux-libertarian political perspectives are simply too immature to acknowledge the realities of living in community with others, to acknowledge the obligations of being a member of a society, to acknowledge the inherent worth and value of others sufficient to accept that reasonable people can disagree with them, and that those opposing perspectives rightfully must be factored-into society's fabric. This is explicitly immaturity of those perspectives, because it refuses to accept that maturity requires striking a balance between what you want and what other reasonable people want, working together to find middle ground rather than petulantly sabotaging society until you get your way.

[Robert_J]

Originally Posted by bUU

This is really the crux of the matter: Neocon and faux-libertarian political perspectives are simply too immature to acknowledge the realities of living in community with others, to acknowledge the obligations of being a member of a society, to acknowledge the inherent worth and value of others sufficient to accept that reasonable people can disagree with them, and that those opposing perspectives rightfully must be factored-into society's fabric. This is explicitly immaturity of those perspectives, because it refuses to accept that maturity requires striking a balance between what you want and what other reasonable people want, working together to find middle ground rather than petulantly sabotaging society until you get your way.

I must have lost that list of obligations that was handed to me when I was born.

I should be able to do what I want, when I want and where I want as long as it has no impact on another's life, liberty or property. In 2nd Amendment terms, that means I should be able to own anything from a .22 Derringer to a General Electric mini-gun to a Howitzer. Who defines "reasonable"?

[bUU]

Originally Posted by Robert_J

I must have lost that list of obligations that was handed to me when I was born.

And therein probably rests the problem: You apparently think being born into a society involves only "goodies" for you, and no obligations. You're grievously mistaken.

[Mac_Muz]

Originally Posted by bUU

When obstruction gets you precisely what you want? Good question. Honor. Obligation to society. These things mean nothing in such a self-centered context, so the point isn't to get such folks who engage in petulant obstructionism to compromise but rather to highlight the offensive nature of their perspectives and how they try to inflict them on everyone, and thereby discredit what they support. I noticed though that you didn't dispute what I wrote about pandering to people's selfish base desires. At least you tacitly admit that much.

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. - Eleanor Roosevelt

I don't have a superiority complex. I'm not the one placing my personal desires over what's best for society (despite your claims that what I'm in favor of isn't what's best for society).

For 55 years gun owners gave in and made compromise. No more..... It's simple. You are a 0 Tolerance type so you know how that works. Just expect the same 0 Tolerance for you. See how that feels.

The shooting yesterday is just another shooting we gun owners can and will blame on the gun grabbers and the weak left.


Hell, now the govt is no insecure a nut case can get on a high security base. That's very telling as to just how weak the USA really is with another nutcase at the helm. let me be clear that nut case is OBAMA.

[Mac_Muz]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

You guys or gonna die of old age waiting for the right time to rise up and "take back the country."

Your idea of war to restore the Constitution will never happen because you guys will never get together and start a single uprise.

Will the US last forever? Probably not, it is safe to say that no nation lives on forever, but will your group be the ones to bring on the next revolution and civil war? I can safely say, no.

That would be a good thing. The CONS hasn't been taken down yet that I know of. You gun grabbers just pretend it has.

Never the less so long as we own guns and out children own guns their children own guns there is always that standing threat to the Feds that if they stray too far from the path the will be the cause of a revolt.

What you grabbers should worry about is a foreign interest of one form or another taking the country by force.

Between the Military and the gun owners we might just use YOU for cannon fodder.

If you are not wiling to put your life in harms way for Freedom, well just maybe we don't need you.

And since women are equal not they should all be singing up for the selective service too.

I foresee a Israel like situation coming where everyone serves, and at a point every one carries a mil rifle in day to day go to work routine.