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I am and I've shot and own a rifle. Never hunted though. That said, I think the protection whether it is self-defense or the "good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun logic" is stupid. Most common sense gun legislation isn't going to prevent the law-abiding gun owners from owning at all, if anything smaller magazines, certain rounds are now banned and they have go through background checks.
Yes, finally someone on here who understands. New gun laws will not completely eliminate gun related crime. But reducing firearm related homicides from 11,000 people a year to 5,000 or 3,000 would be a massive improvement. America is a first world nation, a nation founded by brilliant, educated, civilized people. Our homicide rate is far to high for a country as great as this. The American people deserve better.
The vast majority of people killed by handguns are career criminals being killed by other career criminals, the US is better off without them.
11,000 people killed, 85% are criminals we're better off without, that's 9,350 right there. Some of the remaining 1,650 people are accidents, others are criminals killed by police or civilians, the rest are tragic but not out of line with the homicide rates from any other first world country.
How much worse do you think the crime rates and homicide rates would be in the US with nearly 10,000 additional criminals per year added to the population? Living criminals is a progressive dream come true. You might weep for them but I say good riddance.
I am and I've shot and own a rifle. Never hunted though. That said, I think the protection whether it is self-defense or the "good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun logic" is stupid. Most common sense gun legislation isn't going to prevent the law-abiding gun owners from owning at all, if anything smaller magazines, certain rounds are now banned and they have go through background checks.
With your very own logic, where does it guarantee a criminal can't get a gun, large magazine and bypass a background check? Because all of that falls under:
maybe
might
could
not will prevent
are you now trying to put words into other peoples thoughts? lets stop using the law to make more criminals, instead lets use the laws to stop criminals. lets find a way to eliminate the black market for instance, instead of working to restrict the law abiding citizens rights.
lets go after the criminals with a vengeance, instead of the law abiding citizen. once again, let make punishment long and hard instead of short and easy.
but if you choose to be ignorant, go ahead and think that some how i said we dont need laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag3.14
There are laws that restrict all sorts of "freedoms". There are countless laws governing how we travel, use the roads, the food we eat, aviation, maternity, child protection, security, how business is setup and carried out, trade etc etc etc. Most (even if the outcome isn't as intended) are meant for societes protection. Sensible gun laws are not about "taking away your freedom", they are about making society safer.
As for the mentally ill comment. I agree that more should be done. But mental illness is not unique to America. What is unique is 12,000 homicides a year, mass shootings and the casual attitude toward guns in society.
yes there are all sorts of laws and regulations, many of them are good ones and do a proper job. many others however need to go away as they kill freedoms and jobs.
and 12,000 homicides per year in a country of 300,000,000+ population? drop in the bucket. granted life is precious, and a life taken early is indeed saddening, however people die every day, in fact we have more than 40,000 die every year in traffic accidents, so which do you think should take precedence? the 12,000 homicides? or the 40,000 traffic fatalities? and how about the tens of thousands who die as a result of medical issues? and how many die as a result of doctors mistakes? among other deaths.
taking guns away from law abiding citizens isnt going to reduce the number of murders in this country, so instead of concentrating on the guns, lets concentrate on the criminals instead. get rid of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
I am and I've shot and own a rifle. Never hunted though. That said, I think the protection whether it is self-defense or the "good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun logic" is stupid. Most common sense gun legislation isn't going to prevent the law-abiding gun owners from owning at all, if anything smaller magazines, certain rounds are now banned and they have go through background checks.
true, common sense regulation wont restrict firearms to law abiding citizens, but then what is a common sense regulation these days? most of what is be suggested is no longer common sense, but rather gun grabbing regulation, and you know it. we have plenty of gun laws in this country, do we really need more?
and regarding the magazine capacity limits, what good are they? they only restrict magazine capacity for store bought magazines. a good sheet metal worker can make high capacity magazines for just about any firearm out there.
as for banned ammunition, like the black talon for instance, is rubbish. there are rounds that were and are more effective than the black talons, that are still on the market today. the only reason the black talons were banned is because some idiot new reporter called them "cop killers" and some idiot legislator managed to convince enough of his buddies to ban the round. if someone is willing to experiment with bullets, they can make ones that are much more effective than the black talon in their own home. so what are you going to do now, ban people making bullets in their own homes? ban reloading?
You are obviously a Lib. Se if you lived in a true Marxist society, the Government would either force you to have a gun or take guns away from you. You see here in America, you still have the right to choose buy a gun or not.
you talking Karl Marx? or some fictional Strawman Marx
Quote:
“… the workers must be armed and organized. The whole proletariat must be armed at once with muskets, rifles, cannon and ammunition… Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.” – Karl Marx
Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaConservative
If you don't like the system here, you can always try living in a "gun free" society like North Korea or Cuba. In these places, citizens have no guns, the dictator is free to do whatever he wants and no one can fight back.
Uh, you do know this is a democracy. Both Constitution and amendments can be changed. Laws can be interpreted. . . as such every citizen is encouraged to both use the liberty of their speech to try and influence others and to grow a stronger democracy. Discussion is part of it.
Its never an answer to ask people to leave. Did we ask the abolitionist to leave to Britannia? maybe some did. Hate Social Security, did you leave to Mexico? doubt it.
now my personal opp.
The idea that the NRA has and is publishing (everyone own a gun, blah blah blah) is just propaganda spin and easily ignored. same with the open carry nut jobs.
I have no issues with people having the right to have arms. Though I do think the government should be careful with that right and ENSURE that the right doesn't mean giving a gun to a criminal, someone who is crazy. I.e. regulation and license.
High capacity mag laws...another joke. If the dolts only knew how quickly one can do a mag change (with practice) ... or in the case of those evil AR's just duct tape two standard capacity mags together. Just proof they only push these laws to make the sheeple feel like something is getting done. Eventually though even the sheeple will catch on.. well maybe.
Agreed. But so many people just don't know anything about firearms, fear is easy to use. The interesting thing about high capacity, is that it encourages the "fast as you can pull the trigger" shooting, that is so demonized and that people who don't have a clue fear so much. In reality, I'd rather have someone shooting at me that wah, if I had to have someone shooting at me, than someone who takes the time to aim. Its more like a "miss as fast as you can pull the trigger".
Since the adoption of weapons like the M 16, true marksmanship training has gotten rare. When our troops were carrying M1 Garands, even though its a semi auto, aim small miss small was still the doctrine. The old aimed fire vs area fire argument. Area fire has won out. Even though the percentage of hits , suffers. When I take my AR to the range, I use my five round mags, a d shoot three shot strings. I haven't just rapped a 30 round mag off, for giggles, in better than 20 years. Oh, I have a buttload of both 20 and 30s. I actually prefer the 20s, because they hold exactly one box of cartridges. No half full boxes in the bag.
Civilian shooters have always used the rifle in current use by the military. The AR is the current issue, and its made for high capacity. Yet, for some reason, that fact alone makes it scarier than a Garand or an 03 A3. 8 rounds of 30 06, in a Garand, makes me more nervous than 30 5.56s in an AR, should I be downrange of either. Not that I want to have to make the choice. Atany rate, if people would educate themselves, just a little, about firearms technology, it would go a long ways toward getting shut of all these myths and legends that the grabbers love to use.
It seems like everywhere I look and see, I'm being pressured to buy a gun...not just one gun, multiple ones. Gun shows all over the place, advertisements in newspapers and magazines, and non-stop talk about guns on TV and the radio.
It's like American culture expects me to be carrying around a gun 24/7, and that if I don't own multiple firearms, I'm somehow a second class citizen. Anyone else tired of this?
I'm not. If you own the Ferguson Market and don't want it looted and or burned to the ground - you'd be wise to own guns:
as for banned ammunition, like the black talon for instance, is rubbish. there are rounds that were and are more effective than the black talons, that are still on the market today. the only reason the black talons were banned is because some idiot new reporter called them "cop killers" and some idiot legislator managed to convince enough of his buddies to ban the round. if someone is willing to experiment with bullets, they can make ones that are much more effective than the black talon in their own home. so what are you going to do now, ban people making bullets in their own homes? ban reloading?
And they are only banned in specific states. There is no national ban - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon Even through Winchester doesn't produce the Black Talon any more, they are now making even better ammo.
now my personal opp.
The idea that the NRA has and is publishing (everyone own a gun, blah blah blah) is just propaganda spin and easily ignored. same with the open carry nut jobs.
I have no issues with people having the right to have arms. Though I do think the government should be careful with that right and ENSURE that the right doesn't mean giving a gun to a criminal, someone who is crazy. I.e. regulation and license.
but you see we already have laws on the books that are supposed to prevent criminals from getting firearms. they cannot go to a gun store and buy them, and they really cant go to a gun show and buy them either, since most of the sellers there are commercial ones, and they HAVE to perform background checks. the reality is that criminals get their guns ILLEGALLY, usually by stealing them or buying them on the black market.
and anyone that has been adjudicated as mentally defective also cannot purchase a firearm legally, so again there are laws on the books preventing such transactions.
as for licensing, the federal government is prevented by law from licensing most firearms. you need an FFL if you want to own certain firearms, like full auto fire weapons, but anything else and that constitutes gun registration, and the feds cannot do that, and technically neither can the states, however the courts have looked the other way in the past.
you talking Karl Marx? or some fictional Strawman Marx
Uh, you do know this is a democracy. Both Constitution and amendments can be changed. Laws can be interpreted. . . as such every citizen is encouraged to both use the liberty of their speech to try and influence others and to grow a stronger democracy. Discussion is part of it.
Its never an answer to ask people to leave. Did we ask the abolitionist to leave to Britannia? maybe some did. Hate Social Security, did you leave to Mexico? doubt it.
now my personal opp.
The idea that the NRA has and is publishing (everyone own a gun, blah blah blah) is just propaganda spin and easily ignored. same with the open carry nut jobs.
I have no issues with people having the right to have arms. Though I do think the government should be careful with that right and ENSURE that the right doesn't mean giving a gun to a criminal, someone who is crazy. I.e. regulation and license.
The second amendment is a right. It isn't the same as a privilege like a drivers license. A right can't be licensed or regulated. Unless ones rights have been taken away for some reason, every citizen in this country has the RIGHT to own firearms. As has been repeatedly pointed out, LAWSare already in place to deal with these issues. All the necessary laws are there, but are not being utilized. Use the laws already on the books and enforce them and your issue disappears if your issue is truly the prevention of guns by felons or the criminally insane. You will never prevent all murders with firearms, as you will never prevent all murders with a knife. You can prevent those that the current laws apply to if you only enforce them.
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