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Case in point, the old 740. Semi .30-06 ten round mag. Why isn't anyone afraid of the ol meat gun? It's been around 60 or so years and off everyone's radar.
I post two pictures of the same gun, a mini 14, on this forum. One picture was with a wood stock and the other with a black stock. Of course one of the anti gun posters here thought the one with the black plastic stock was much more dangerious than the other gun pictured.
The problem with anti gun people is they do not actually know anything about guns.
Case in point, the old 740. Semi .30-06 ten round mag. Why isn't anyone afraid of the ol meat gun? It's been around 60 or so years and off everyone's radar.
Yep. The old Garand as well. The M1A/ M14 has bad a few cosmetic lifts, so, in certain guise, it pops up on said radar, now and again, but in stock original, not so much. As mentioned, the black plastic/pistol grip is the Devil Gun. Hang a "military" or "tactical" monicker, on any weapon, firearm, blade, whatever, and its even worse.
The difference is, that my opinion is based on the laws and the constitution. Yours are based on Golly I sure wish this would happen. Given that you concede that it is not going to happen your way, why not embrace what has the best chance of happening. Embrace and enforce the current existing laws instead of acting as if they don't exit.
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Originally Posted by rbohm
really? hardly any gun crime in the UK? are you sure you want to stick to that story?
seems like you have failed on this one my friend, try again.
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Originally Posted by NVplumber
Wait just a sec, here...what "facts" are you referring to? Statistics are NOT facts. They are theoretical numbers. Mathematical formulas, cooked up using numbers, who's values are questionable, at best. And yes, that goes for ANY "statistic", whether it supports my position , or not. Thats why I don't cite them in discussions like this. For this particular issue, my own experiences, firsthand knowledge, and actual case history, is sufficient.
Now, as a citizen of the UK, from my house, that means your opinion doesn't count for anything, as to American rights to firearms. The UK gave up its citizens rights to arms, long ago, that doesn't mean the US should follow suit. You guys tried that when you were our landlords. How'd that go, again? . Through our entire history, US citizens have used the same firearms our military does. That is proper , for citizens of a free nation. The reasons for an armed citizenry, that existed during our founding, still exist today. We cannot be dependent on our police and military, to defend us, or protect us, when need arises.
In much of the country, response time for police is just to long. Even in urban areas. With the latter, many neighborhoods have been taken over by criminal gangs, because the honest citizens HAVE been disarmed, and they are under the boots of the thugs. Sure, call the cops. When they can't HD, or even arrest the bad guys, and they burn down your house for calling the police, that's OK. Because you're safer, for not having a gun. I'm sure many folks are comforted by that, when an SUV full of armed bangers rolls up on their house because they dared call the police.
Call me silly, but, I would find my AR more comforting, in such a situation. Alas, this is not an option for the honest folks , who have to live in gang areas, that wouldn't be "gang areas", if they did have the option of self/community defense. And please, don't give me that driv, about the police being better qualified to take on said defense. They don't live there, its a job, not a life, to them, and waiting on them to show up, if one even gets through on 911, isn't going to save any lives. Coued with the fact that the bad guys WILL be armed, regardless of laws that deny them that, where the common sense is, shines through, in an obvious manner.
This is the US. We live here. Our right to defend our homes and communities is being chipped away. The aces it has been taken, are proof of what that does. Tyranny does not just come from oppressive government. Think about that , before judging us.
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Originally Posted by scarabchuck
Just curious, if your methodology is correct why is this idiocracy popping up in the UK ? Because you know, if firearms are banned there will be no more violence. Oh wait, there will be no more gun violence since your focus seems to be against guns without really caring about getting the violent criminals off the streets.
Wow, look at that 90,000 knives turned in and crime didn't drop... What does that tell you ?
Open your eyes and mind and see this for what it is. You can't fix problems with short term solutions, you have to go after the root cause. It's just logic, take your emotion out of it.
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Originally Posted by no1brownsfan
Yeah. Good luck with that. Are you going to be one of those going door to door to collect guns from people? I know several hard working, law abiding citizens who have made it very clear that should the government come to their door to confiscate their guns, that they'd give them back... one bullet at a time! The irony here is that those who would come to confiscate the guns would have....get this....GUNS! If you honestly think things are out of control now, then you haven't seen anything yet from what a massive gun grab would cause. Are you ready for that type of unrest? Your solution is not a realistic, nor safe! Furthermore, there is a reason why the 2nd Amendment was created. Take away that, and you can kiss the rest of the Bill of Rights goodbye! Or did you honestly think that a government who would even consider repealing the 2nd would allow you to keep your other Constitutional rights?
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Originally Posted by no1brownsfan
Then go back! Newsflash! This isn't the damn UK, nor do we wish to emulate the UK, or pay tribute to a Queen who BTW has no power anyway! I wish folks that came to this country would stop trying to bring their BS to our country and leave their baggage behind!
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Originally Posted by lifeexplorer
Please kindly point out which fact is on your side. I haven't seen any real facts that are on your side. I also need to remind you facts aren't truth and correlation is not necessarily causation.
Now go!
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Originally Posted by Haakon
No, the facts aren't on your side and you clearly have never looked at the gun or crime statistics in America. You have clearly bought into the usual anti gun propaganda from dishonest people looking to push an agenda and believe them since it fits your bias and you're not intellectually honest enough to admit it.
Fortunately what you consider means absolutely nothing.
Does hypocrisy mean anything to you? You seem to be fitting the stereotype of the typical US anti gun nut to a T.
Well that explains why you're so ignorant on the topic, you don't even know what the "gun crimes" are in your own country or that they've been constantly increasing since your enlightened lords banned them.
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Originally Posted by mustangman66
Ignorance....
People that want guns will get them illegally and use them against those of us that obey the law. Banning guns does nothing but make the weak weaker. One should be able to protect themselves as well as those around them. A criminal will willingly use a firearm against those he knows don't have one because hes weak, however, that same criminal may think twice about using one if there may be other people there with a firearm that will use it against him if need be.
The real issue here are criminals, not law abiding citizens. If we didn't have criminals there would be no need to want to carry a weapon. Instead of focusing on needing to carry a gun to protect yourself why not focus on criminals themselves who are committing these crimes. The focus as usual in this country is in the wrong place.
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Originally Posted by OhBeeHave
You've made me giggle. So cute, so naive.
Read up on the Volstead Act (18th Amendment) and the 21st Amendment (repeal). What can you tell us of Prohibition? Was it successful? Was alcohol use eradicated, and not a single drop found in the US? Define bathtub gin. What was the economic impact of Prohibition? Which groups benefitted? Were there any groups which were given legal exemptions, if so, why? If there were exemptions, were they widely interpreted and flauted? Why was Prohibition repealed?
Next up, tell us about the US war on drugs. How it has eliminate drugs from our streets, and how no one can get illegal drugs.
On to guns: why is it that the areas with the strictest gun laws (Chicago, NYC, DC) happen to have the highest amount of gun crimes? Are those committing those crimes licensed to carry? If there are strict sentences already in place, why hasn't that deterred these crimes?
Placing more laws and restrictions on the lawabiding is not going to stop the lawless from continuing their violent ways -- whether it be a gun, a knife, or their bare hands. If you want to stop violence, you must get to the root of the problem.
If you have a crappy carpenter who can't build a level shelf, do you blame the wood and the level, or the person building it?
So, I'll address a few things here (apart from the comment above that someone made about "facts not being reality"? ). Firstly, I am a citizen of this country and am equally entitled to an opinion as anyone else. I do not agree with having a Queen, nor do I think that the UK is necessarily a "better" country than the US (if I did, I would be living there rather than here ). Secondly, gun crime in the UK may have "soared" by 35% but an average of around 50 people TOTAL are killed by a gun each year, so an extra 35% would be 17 people. A 0.5% increase in the US would be double that! I will acknowledge here that one cannot simply transfer the UK's gun laws to America either, as the two countries are, well, different for one, and have two different cultures toward guns to begin with.
Look, I am not "anti gun". I mentioned much earlier on that I occasionally go the range, and have several friends that own guns. In fact, I ride a motorcycle, and when I ride with my gun owning friends they carry them. They have all asked if I mind, to which I have told them that I don't really see the point but if they want to then that is fine with me.
I will list several sources below that discuss how guns don't make us safer, how they threaten the safety of others in society, and how the vast majority of people are actually more at risk with a gun than without. But, here is my question for all you - Do you believe that the US has a gun problem? If you do, what do you propose should be done? If not, you would propose that we do absolutely nothing to reduce America's mass shootings?
The responses above (many including personal attacks) tell me that it is almost impossible to have a discussion around gun ownership. It doesn't need to be extreme one way or the other or angry. My proposal is extreme (and I admitted such), and I acknowledge that the chance of a plan like that becoming reality are a fraction above zero. What is important though is that we can at least admit that there is a problem, and then hold a rational discussion about what can be done about it. If it is realistic to only focus on mental health issues then so be it. If it is realistic to enforce stricter gun control measures then so be it. Can we just start there?
So, I'll address a few things here (apart from the comment above that someone made about "facts not being reality"? ). Firstly, I am a citizen of this country and am equally entitled to an opinion as anyone else. I do not agree with having a Queen, nor do I think that the UK is necessarily a "better" country than the US (if I did, I would be living there rather than here ). Secondly, gun crime in the UK may have "soared" by 35% but an average of around 50 people TOTAL are killed by a gun each year, so an extra 35% would be 17 people. A 0.5% increase in the US would be double that! I will acknowledge here that one cannot simply transfer the UK's gun laws to America either, as the two countries are, well, different for one, and have two different cultures toward guns to begin with.
Look, I am not "anti gun". I mentioned much earlier on that I occasionally go the range, and have several friends that own guns. In fact, I ride a motorcycle, and when I ride with my gun owning friends they carry them. They have all asked if I mind, to which I have told them that I don't really see the point but if they want to then that is fine with me.
I will list several sources below that discuss how guns don't make us safer, how they threaten the safety of others in society, and how the vast majority of people are actually more at risk with a gun than without. But, here is my question for all you - Do you believe that the US has a gun problem? If you do, what do you propose should be done? If not, you would propose that we do absolutely nothing to reduce America's mass shootings?
The responses above (many including personal attacks) tell me that it is almost impossible to have a discussion around gun ownership. It doesn't need to be extreme one way or the other or angry. My proposal is extreme (and I admitted such), and I acknowledge that the chance of a plan like that becoming reality are a fraction above zero. What is important though is that we can at least admit that there is a problem, and then hold a rational discussion about what can be done about it. If it is realistic to only focus on mental health issues then so be it. If it is realistic to enforce stricter gun control measures then so be it. Can we just start there?
So, I'll address a few things here (apart from the comment above that someone made about "facts not being reality"? ). Firstly, I am a citizen of this country and am equally entitled to an opinion as anyone else. I do not agree with having a Queen, nor do I think that the UK is necessarily a "better" country than the US (if I did, I would be living there rather than here ). Secondly, gun crime in the UK may have "soared" by 35% but an average of around 50 people TOTAL are killed by a gun each year, so an extra 35% would be 17 people. A 0.5% increase in the US would be double that! I will acknowledge here that one cannot simply transfer the UK's gun laws to America either, as the two countries are, well, different for one, and have two different cultures toward guns to begin with.
Look, I am not "anti gun". I mentioned much earlier on that I occasionally go the range, and have several friends that own guns. In fact, I ride a motorcycle, and when I ride with my gun owning friends they carry them. They have all asked if I mind, to which I have told them that I don't really see the point but if they want to then that is fine with me.
I will list several sources below that discuss how guns don't make us safer, how they threaten the safety of others in society, and how the vast majority of people are actually more at risk with a gun than without. But, here is my question for all you - Do you believe that the US has a gun problem? If you do, what do you propose should be done? If not, you would propose that we do absolutely nothing to reduce America's mass shootings?
The responses above (many including personal attacks) tell me that it is almost impossible to have a discussion around gun ownership. It doesn't need to be extreme one way or the other or angry. My proposal is extreme (and I admitted such), and I acknowledge that the chance of a plan like that becoming reality are a fraction above zero. What is important though is that we can at least admit that there is a problem, and then hold a rational discussion about what can be done about it. If it is realistic to only focus on mental health issues then so be it. If it is realistic to enforce stricter gun control measures then so be it. Can we just start there?
So, I'll address a few things here (apart from the comment above that someone made about "facts not being reality"? ). Firstly, I am a citizen of this country and am equally entitled to an opinion as anyone else. I do not agree with having a Queen, nor do I think that the UK is necessarily a "better" country than the US (if I did, I would be living there rather than here ). Secondly, gun crime in the UK may have "soared" by 35% but an average of around 50 people TOTAL are killed by a gun each year, so an extra 35% would be 17 people. A 0.5% increase in the US would be double that! I will acknowledge here that one cannot simply transfer the UK's gun laws to America either, as the two countries are, well, different for one, and have two different cultures toward guns to begin with.
Look, I am not "anti gun". I mentioned much earlier on that I occasionally go the range, and have several friends that own guns. In fact, I ride a motorcycle, and when I ride with my gun owning friends they carry them. They have all asked if I mind, to which I have told them that I don't really see the point but if they want to then that is fine with me.
I will list several sources below that discuss how guns don't make us safer, how they threaten the safety of others in society, and how the vast majority of people are actually more at risk with a gun than without. But, here is my question for all you - Do you believe that the US has a gun problem? If you do, what do you propose should be done? If not, you would propose that we do absolutely nothing to reduce America's mass shootings?
The responses above (many including personal attacks) tell me that it is almost impossible to have a discussion around gun ownership. It doesn't need to be extreme one way or the other or angry. My proposal is extreme (and I admitted such), and I acknowledge that the chance of a plan like that becoming reality are a fraction above zero. What is important though is that we can at least admit that there is a problem, and then hold a rational discussion about what can be done about it. If it is realistic to only focus on mental health issues then so be it. If it is realistic to enforce stricter gun control measures then so be it. Can we just start there?
Okay, I looked at one of those links and think it's complete and totally unsubstantiated by solid facts. I stopped there.
You seem to be bouncing back and forth on two topics, " banning guns and things will be good " and when we've proven you wrong on that one you jump to the "having a gun doesn't make you safer" which again we've proven you wrong. The only thing I will say on the later is carrying a firearm isn't like donning Tony Stark's Iron man suit, you aren't invincible. What it does is make you prepared. How prepared is up to how much each individual wants to train. Some never use the gun again after they get their CPL...these types , sadly will be a statistic. So common sense has to be used , and from some of these replies I see our society is lacking immensly on that.
So, I'll address a few things here (apart from the comment above that someone made about "facts not being reality"? ). Firstly, I am a citizen of this country and am equally entitled to an opinion as anyone else. I do not agree with having a Queen, nor do I think that the UK is necessarily a "better" country than the US (if I did, I would be living there rather than here ). Secondly, gun crime in the UK may have "soared" by 35% but an average of around 50 people TOTAL are killed by a gun each year, so an extra 35% would be 17 people. A 0.5% increase in the US would be double that! I will acknowledge here that one cannot simply transfer the UK's gun laws to America either, as the two countries are, well, different for one, and have two different cultures toward guns to begin with.
Look, I am not "anti gun". I mentioned much earlier on that I occasionally go the range, and have several friends that own guns. In fact, I ride a motorcycle, and when I ride with my gun owning friends they carry them. They have all asked if I mind, to which I have told them that I don't really see the point but if they want to then that is fine with me.
I will list several sources below that discuss how guns don't make us safer, how they threaten the safety of others in society, and how the vast majority of people are actually more at risk with a gun than without. But, here is my question for all you - Do you believe that the US has a gun problem? If you do, what do you propose should be done? If not, you would propose that we do absolutely nothing to reduce America's mass shootings?
The responses above (many including personal attacks) tell me that it is almost impossible to have a discussion around gun ownership. It doesn't need to be extreme one way or the other or angry. My proposal is extreme (and I admitted such), and I acknowledge that the chance of a plan like that becoming reality are a fraction above zero. What is important though is that we can at least admit that there is a problem, and then hold a rational discussion about what can be done about it. If it is realistic to only focus on mental health issues then so be it. If it is realistic to enforce stricter gun control measures then so be it. Can we just start there?
(Sigh)...No. we do not have a "gun problem". Crime is a problem. An ever present one. The biggest criminal issue we have, revolves around gangs, and the drug trade. Taking away the 2A will not put any dents in that issue. The drug lord gangs will still be heavily armed, and have zero problem obtaining guns.
Until such a day, as crime doesn't pay, the problem will exist. Guns are not the issue. The profitability of crime is. Especially drugs. The money is well worth killing for , to these people. Nut cases, who like to target movie theatres and such, avai , the issue is not guns. These people would kill, with or without a gun. No deaths, due to a murderous individual, will be stopped because they couldn't get a gun. Asked from the fact that they could get one , of they really wanted one, anyway, to many other options are out there. Some, much more deadly and effective than a gun. Gasoline comes to mind.
So, again, no, guns are not a problem. The problem is much deeper than a mechanical device, and who can and cannot, possess said device.
So, I'll address a few things here (apart from the comment above that someone made about "facts not being reality"? ). Firstly, I am a citizen of this country and am equally entitled to an opinion as anyone else. I do not agree with having a Queen, nor do I think that the UK is necessarily a "better" country than the US (if I did, I would be living there rather than here ). Secondly, gun crime in the UK may have "soared" by 35% but an average of around 50 people TOTAL are killed by a gun each year, so an extra 35% would be 17 people. A 0.5% increase in the US would be double that! I will acknowledge here that one cannot simply transfer the UK's gun laws to America either, as the two countries are, well, different for one, and have two different cultures toward guns to begin with.
Look, I am not "anti gun". I mentioned much earlier on that I occasionally go the range, and have several friends that own guns. In fact, I ride a motorcycle, and when I ride with my gun owning friends they carry them. They have all asked if I mind, to which I have told them that I don't really see the point but if they want to then that is fine with me.
I will list several sources below that discuss how guns don't make us safer, how they threaten the safety of others in society, and how the vast majority of people are actually more at risk with a gun than without. But, here is my question for all you - Do you believe that the US has a gun problem? If you do, what do you propose should be done? If not, you would propose that we do absolutely nothing to reduce America's mass shootings?
The responses above (many including personal attacks) tell me that it is almost impossible to have a discussion around gun ownership. It doesn't need to be extreme one way or the other or angry. My proposal is extreme (and I admitted such), and I acknowledge that the chance of a plan like that becoming reality are a fraction above zero. What is important though is that we can at least admit that there is a problem, and then hold a rational discussion about what can be done about it. If it is realistic to only focus on mental health issues then so be it. If it is realistic to enforce stricter gun control measures then so be it. Can we just start there?
why not try some REAL statistics here, instead of the crap you have posted. granted the stats in this article are from 2007, but they are still relevant today;
mexico had 11,309 homicides by firearm in 2007, while having a population of 15,500,000
the phillipines had 7,349 homcides by firearm in 2007, while having a population of 3,900,000
south africa had 8,319 homicides by firearm in 2007, while having a population of 5,950,000
the US had 9,146 homicides by firearm in 2007, while having a population of 270,000,000
venezuela had 11,150 homicides by firearm in 2007, while having a population of 2,850,000
jamaica had 1080 homicides by firearm in 2007, while having a population of 215,000
honduras had 5201 homcides by firearm in 2007, while having a population of 500,000
guatamala had 5009 homicides by firearm in 2007 while having a population of 1,650,000
so given those statistics, and given that the US has 88 firearms per 100 people, can you tell me wich countries truly have a problem with murders by firearm? i can tell you the US ranks about 28th in the world.
NRA is biased but I have to give it credit that the list cited sources.
If you read my local newspaper, that some intruder got shot is like daily event here.
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I'm sure many folks are comforted by that, when an SUV full of armed bangers rolls up on their house because they dared call the police. 
I wish folks that came to this country would stop trying to bring their BS to our country and leave their baggage behind!
). Firstly, I am a citizen of this country and am equally entitled to an opinion as anyone else. I do not agree with having a Queen, nor do I think that the UK is necessarily a "better" country than the US (if I did, I would be living there rather than here 
