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Could you indicate what this has to do with vaccines, exactly?
A drug is a drug is a drug; be it Paxil or Fluzone. Who would have thought Nancy Reagan's slogan "Just say no to drugs" would be so far reaching today?
Could you indicate what this has to do with vaccines, exactly?
When you skim read a post you sometimes miss sentences so I understand. I tied it all together neatly with my last sentence (which you missed...). Do you also do this with other important things like scientific papers?
Quote:
Goes to show also that there is a lack of transparency with vaccines in that they don't list all of the side effects including rare ones in commercials or documentation for consent.
There is a very real problem with a persons or child's immune system if they react adversely to vaccines. 98% of the population does not have these adverse reactions.
And Autism and vaccines are not connected. Autism is genetic.
When you skim read a post you sometimes miss sentences so I understand. I tied it all together neatly with my last sentence (which you missed...). Do you also do this with other important things like scientific papers?
Actually, you posted a bunch of side effects of a drug, Effexor, and then said "Goes to show also that there is a lack of transparency with vaccines in that they don't list all of the side effects including rare ones in commercials or documentation for consent." I do not consider that tying it all together neatly. I consider it comparing apples to corn flakes.
I do not understand what this drug has to do with vaccines. Please explain. If you want to discuss vaccines, post some information about a vaccine.
I thought I was pretty clear myself. I was the one who needed to relax and stop bothering her about it! But like I said in another post, it is amazing that the vaccine religion seems to discount the toxins in it but erupts over a glass of wine. It really proves the point of the comparison I was making though.
The ingredients in vaccines are not toxic in the amounts used.
The lower limit of safety for alcohol in pregnancy cannot be determined. Therefore, the experts recommend completely abstaining from alcohol during pregnancy.
What is amazing is that you consider the tiny amount of aluminum in a vaccine to be toxic, but you ignore the fact that wine also may contain tiny amounts of potential toxins. You might want to actually read the links in Katiana's post about that.
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During the next pregnancy, that same midwife suggested that I get the Flu Shot so I did. Not only was I the sickest I have ever been immediately after but my daughter was purple when born after an extremely long labor and had to be hospitalized with an unexplained fever. She probably would be diagnosed on the autism spectrum if I pushed the issue. That was my first and last flu shot.
Could the long labor have perhaps caused your daughter's problems? Obviously it had to be the flu vaccine you got weeks earlier! It's always the vaccine, right?
If you were "the sickest you've ever been" right after the flu vaccine, you were already getting sick when you took it. The flu vaccine does not cause flu.
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That is very interesting (as well as hypocritical)! And what about the whole Thalidomide debacle in the 70s. I think that is proof that toxins should be avoided at all costs during pregnancy (Yes even wine LOL).
Did you know that thalidomide was never approved by the FDA for use in the US?
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Some interesting points in this
FACT: [i] The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists influenza and Tdap vaccines as either Pregnancy Category B or C biologicals15 which means that adequate testing has not been done in humans to demonstrate safety for pregnant women and it is not known whether the vaccines can cause fetal harm or affect reproduction capacity. The manufacturers of influenza and Tdap vaccines state that human toxicity and fertility studies are inadequate and warn that the influenza and Tdap vaccines should “be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed.”
The manufacturers did not do the studies. Other researchers have done them and showed the vaccines are safe in pregnancy.
Argument by package insert and why it is not valid:
And from the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (you know, those pesky folks who actually take care of pregnant women, including sick pregnant women):
"The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists recommends routine assessment of each pregnant woman’s immunization status and administration of indicated immunizations. The benefits of nonlive vaccines outweigh any unproven potential concerns. Importantly, evolving data demonstrate both maternal and neonatal protection against an increasing number of aggressive newborn pathogens through the use of maternal immunization programs, suggesting pregnancy is an optimal time to immunize for disease prevention in both mothers and newborns. There is no evidence of adverse fetal effects from vaccinating pregnant women with an inactivated virus or bacterial vaccines or toxoids, and a growing body of robust data demonstrates safety of such use. Co-administration of indicated inactivated vaccines during pregnancy (ie, Tdap and influenza) is also acceptable, safe, and may optimize effectiveness of immunization efforts."
A drug is a drug is a drug; be it Paxil or Fluzone. Who would have thought Nancy Reagan's slogan "Just say no to drugs" would be so far reaching today?
This "unique class" means that the vaccination religion can claim they are "safe and effective" no matter what evidence there is to the contrary and can omit side effects.
Seriously though, vaccines are worse than drugs because of this "unique class" and much more.
This "unique class" means that the vaccination religion can claim they are "safe and effective" no matter what evidence there is to the contrary and can omit side effects.
Seriously though, vaccines are worse than drugs because of this "unique class" and much more.
What evidence to the contrary? VAERS reports are not evidence. Internet stories are not evidence.
The ingredients in vaccines are not toxic in the amounts used.
but the ingredients in a glass of wine are?
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
The lower limit of safety for alcohol in pregnancy cannot be determined. Therefore, the experts recommend completely abstaining from alcohol during pregnancy.
Yet vaccines used in pregnancy are not tested for safety or efficacy so you should really abstain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
What is amazing is that you consider the tiny amount of aluminum in a vaccine to be toxic, but you ignore the fact that wine also may contain tiny amounts of potential toxins. You might want to actually read the links in Katiana's post about that.
It's interesting that each of you religious vaccination supporters selectively read posts. I actually DIDN'T drink any wine even though my midwife suggested it. I actually think it's wrong to even take an aspirin during pregnancy.
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Could the long labor have perhaps caused your daughter's problems? Obviously it had to be the flu vaccine you got weeks earlier! It's always the vaccine, right?
I have had 4 children naturally. The only difference in her case was the vaccine. It's a small sample but with all the genes and environment the same it actually makes for a great case. The ONLY difference was the flu shot. That has scientific significance.
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
If you were "the sickest you've ever been" right after the flu vaccine, you were already getting sick when you took it. The flu vaccine does not cause flu.
Never had the flu. EVER. Not before or after that. So I had the start of the flu (with no symptoms) before I had the shot? Are you serious?
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Did you know that thalidomide was never approved by the FDA for use in the US?
Who cares what country we are talking about. You routinely state figures of disease death from other countries when saying childhood diseases are "deadly" so the FACT is that this drug caused babies to be born without limbs and other things. ANY toxin ingested, injected, or encountered during pregnancy has the potential to harm the fetus. That is a FACT and includes VACCINES. Maybe you should show why vaccines should be exempt from toxin status when they are clearly toxic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
The manufacturers did not do the studies. Other researchers have done them and showed the vaccines are safe in pregnancy.
No one has done the studies. Show me a study of vaccinated pregnancy outcomes versus non-vaccinated pregnancy outcomes. Show them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Argument by package insert and why it is not valid:
Okay I'm just going to take a religious vaccination stance on this. Skeptical Raptor's Blog? Really? A unanimous person claiming to be educated? Yet we should believe what he/she says? You discredit a great scientist know for their work but promote this nameless dork? I am really shocked at how far you are willing to reach for info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
And from the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (you know, those pesky folks who actually take care of pregnant women, including sick pregnant women):
"The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists recommends routine assessment of each pregnant woman’s immunization status and administration of indicated immunizations. The benefits of nonlive vaccines outweigh any unproven potential concerns. Importantly, evolving data demonstrate both maternal and neonatal protection against an increasing number of aggressive newborn pathogens through the use of maternal immunization programs, suggesting pregnancy is an optimal time to immunize for disease prevention in both mothers and newborns. There is no evidence of adverse fetal effects from vaccinating pregnant women with an inactivated virus or bacterial vaccines or toxoids, and a growing body of robust data demonstrates safety of such use. Co-administration of indicated inactivated vaccines during pregnancy (ie, Tdap and influenza) is also acceptable, safe, and may optimize effectiveness of immunization efforts."
"outweigh any unproven potential concerns"... um if they are unproven then...
Guess what is unproven.... The safety of vaccines during pregnancy. As I stated before, there has been no study as to the efficacy and safety of vaccines during pregnancy. The FDA lists vaccines as a potentially harmful agent.
I thought I was pretty clear myself. I was the one who needed to relax and stop bothering her about it! But like I said in another post, it is amazing that the vaccine religion seems to discount the toxins in it but erupts over a glass of wine. It really proves the point of the comparison I was making though.
During the next pregnancy, that same midwife suggested that I get the Flu Shot so I did. Not only was I the sickest I have ever been immediately after but my daughter was purple when born after an extremely long labor and had to be hospitalized with an unexplained fever. She probably would be diagnosed on the autism spectrum if I pushed the issue. That was my first and last flu shot.
That is very interesting (as well as hypocritical)! And what about the whole Thalidomide debacle in the 70s. I think that is proof that toxins should be avoided at all costs during pregnancy (Yes even wine LOL).
Some interesting points in this NVIC article: FACT: The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists influenza and Tdap vaccines as either Pregnancy Category B or C biologicals15 which means that adequate testing has not been done in humans to demonstrate safety for pregnant women and it is not known whether the vaccines can cause fetal harm or affect reproduction capacity. The manufacturers of influenza and Tdap vaccines state that human toxicity and fertility studies are inadequate and warn that the influenza and Tdap vaccines should “be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed.”161718
FACT: There are ingredients in influenza and pertussis containing Tdap vaccines that have not been fully evaluated for potential genotoxic19or other adverse effects on the human fetus developing in the womb that may negatively affect health after birth, including aluminum adjuvants, mercury containing (Thimerosal) preservatives and many more bioactive and potentially toxic ingredients.202122 2324252627 2829
FACT:The FDA has licensed Tdap vaccines to be given once as a single dose pertussis booster shot to individuals over 10 or 11 years old. The CDC’s recommendation that doctors give every pregnant woman a Tdap vaccination during every pregnancy - regardless of whether a woman has already received one dose of Tdap - is an off-label use of the vaccine.37
There are more but these stood out to me in light of Suzy's rant about my misuse of package inserts. I think I'll recommend a glass of wine to pregnant women instead of shots...
That's the conclusion you drew from that birth? The combination of the long labor and the purple color of your newborn should have suggested oxygen deprivation during the birth of your child. Did the midwife do APGAR scores? What were they? I'm going to assume nothing like fetal heart monitoring was being done during your birth process. What I'm thinking right now is oxygen deprivation that during the birthing process that may have caused your daughter to suffer a birth injury. Its also interesting to me that you say that "if you pushed the issue she could probably be diagnosed with ASD".
You have just cited a number of reasons why women giving birth should always do so in a hospital with an OB in attendance. (Not on topic, but highly relevant)
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and can omit side effects.
