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Old 03-06-2016, 08:35 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,654,236 times
Reputation: 18521

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Not paying grazing fees makes for tremendous savings. A certain loss rate becomes manageable.


The government should be paying the ranchers, to do what the herds of Buffalo use to do naturally.

Think about that for one little second, in those pea brains.
Why were the herds of buffalo put into near extinction?

 
Old 03-06-2016, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,301,017 times
Reputation: 34059
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
The government should be paying the ranchers, to do what the herds of Buffalo use to do naturally. Think about that for one little second, in those pea brains. Why were the herds of buffalo put into near extinction?
I put my little pea brain to work and researched your claim, here's what I found:

Livestock are the principal cause of soil erosion and stream degradation.
(Jones 2000; Belsky et al, 1999)

Considerable harm to wildlife results from the pervasive competition for
forage and removal of cover by livestock (Fleischner 1994)

Herbicides are the main tool used to control weeds that are spread by
livestock operations. Many noxious weeds are spread by livestock operations.
(Belsky and Gelbard 2000, Reisner, 2013

Grazing is often the land use most damaging to soils and vegetation,
causing widespread soil erosion and infestations of grasslands with
weeds, shrubs and conifers.(Belsky and Blumenthal 1995, Reisner
2013)

Grazing is the principle cause of the growth of highly flammable
thickets in western ponderosa pine forests, and for invasion of
rangelands by pinion, juniper and other woody shrubs. Wildland fire
management includes thinning of thickest and prescribed fires to reduce
fuel loads. (Belsky and Blumenthal 1995)
 
Old 03-06-2016, 08:57 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,654,236 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I put my little pea brain to work and researched your claim, here's what I found:

Livestock are the principal cause of soil erosion and stream degradation.
(Jones 2000; Belsky et al, 1999)

Considerable harm to wildlife results from the pervasive competition for
forage and removal of cover by livestock (Fleischner 1994)

Herbicides are the main tool used to control weeds that are spread by
livestock operations. Many noxious weeds are spread by livestock operations.
(Belsky and Gelbard 2000, Reisner, 2013

Grazing is often the land use most damaging to soils and vegetation,
causing widespread soil erosion and infestations of grasslands with
weeds, shrubs and conifers.(Belsky and Blumenthal 1995, Reisner
2013)

Grazing is the principle cause of the growth of highly flammable
thickets in western ponderosa pine forests, and for invasion of
rangelands by pinion, juniper and other woody shrubs. Wildland fire
management includes thinning of thickest and prescribed fires to reduce
fuel loads. (Belsky and Blumenthal 1995)
Which all happened naturally, when buffaloes roamed and you didn't answer the question.
The government should be paying the ranchers, to do what the herds of Buffalo use to do naturally.
Why were the herds of buffalo put into near extinction?
The herds of buffalo out numbered the livestock there today, by the millions.


You have seen way too many stock yards!

Last edited by BentBow; 03-06-2016 at 09:06 AM..
 
Old 03-06-2016, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,761,687 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
The government should be paying the ranchers, to do what the herds of Buffalo use to do naturally.

Think about that for one little second, in those pea brains.
Why were the herds of buffalo put into near extinction?
Personally, I'd love to see the bison back.

Plains sense

But the Bundys of the world would have to give up their "independent" rancher fantasies, and that's not happening any time soon. Cattle "ranching" is only feasible in the arid west because government keeps the price of management low.
 
Old 03-06-2016, 09:09 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,654,236 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Personally, I'd love to see the bison back.
Ya! Why with government and their grand ideas for preservation and restoration and all.....

Because it isn't about preservation and restoration at all. It is about power and the people no longer have it.
Show me the money!
 
Old 03-06-2016, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,761,687 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Ya! Why with government and their grand ideas for preservation and restoration and all.....

Because it isn't about preservation and restoration at all. It is about power and the people no longer have it.
Show me the money!
Oooh, touched a nerve, didn't I?

How's this, Bentbow - we know what the grasslands looked like before the bison herds were destroyed to make room for cows. I will gladly subsidize any and all ranchers whose grazing regimes result in the return of those grasslands. I would *strongly* prefer that it would be done with bison, but reality being what it is, cows or wildebeest would do. Just as long as the native grass species grow tall again, the creeks and springs run, and the aquifers begin to recharge.

There are private efforts to this end. Buffalo for the Broken Heart - Wild Idea Buffalo

I suspect these efforts require too much imagination and thought for the likes of the Bundys, even though they have/had all the tools they needed to try. They'd rather wave guns around and get their vanilla creamer for free.
 
Old 03-06-2016, 03:32 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,654,236 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Oooh, touched a nerve, didn't I?

How's this, Bentbow - we know what the grasslands looked like before the bison herds were destroyed to make room for cows. I will gladly subsidize any and all ranchers whose grazing regimes result in the return of those grasslands. I would *strongly* prefer that it would be done with bison, but reality being what it is, cows or wildebeest would do. Just as long as the native grass species grow tall again, the creeks and springs run, and the aquifers begin to recharge.

There are private efforts to this end. Buffalo for the Broken Heart - Wild Idea Buffalo

I suspect these efforts require too much imagination and thought for the likes of the Bundys, even though they have/had all the tools they needed to try. They'd rather wave guns around and get their vanilla creamer for free.

A nerve?
I agreed with you 100%.

""Why with government and their grand ideas for preservation and restoration and all.....""
That was typed out sarcasm.
You'd a thunk they would have got right on that.
Because it isn't about preservation and restoration at all. It is about power and the people no longer have it.
It is all about ""Show me the money!""

The little cattle that do free roam during the spring, are no comparison to the numbers that grazed it naturally.

CLUE: I have 6 Bison on my property in Gonzales. 2 of which were born last June.
Ever eaten Beefallo?

Last edited by BentBow; 03-06-2016 at 03:41 PM..
 
Old 03-06-2016, 06:31 PM
 
11,181 posts, read 10,537,988 times
Reputation: 18618
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
The government should be paying the ranchers, to do what the herds of Buffalo use to do naturally.

Think about that for one little second, in those pea brains.
Why were the herds of buffalo put into near extinction?
Overgrazing, whether caused by domestic cattle or domestic bison, is not a good thing.

Historically, wild bison did not overgraze:
Quote:
Plains Bison herds moved continuously to avoid overgrazing and to reach seasonally favorable terrain. Moving herds created trails that became early passageways for humans crossing the prairies.
The Plains Bison - American Buffalo - DesertUSA

As to what caused their near extinction,
Quote:
Though greed, ignorance, technology, and stupidity all certainly played a part in the destruction of the buffalo, the cause of their near-demise was a relentless, swirling combination of economic, environmental, and cultural factors that resulted from the meeting of two societies: that of the Plains Indians, and that of European explorers and, later, American settlers.
PBS - Frontier House: Frontier Life
 
Old 03-06-2016, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Stasis
15,823 posts, read 12,471,721 times
Reputation: 8599
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
CLUE: I have 6 Bison on my property in Gonzales. 2 of which were born last June.
Ever eaten Beefallo?
East Texas is not Nevada Bundy ranch territory, and beef bison get fed more and better than what they can forage for.
 
Old 03-06-2016, 07:15 PM
 
Location: CO
2,172 posts, read 1,454,726 times
Reputation: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
CLUE: I have 6 Bison on my property in Gonzales. 2 of which were born last June.
Very cool.... Denver had their annual auction on Friday. Notable mainly because:
Quote:
Denver's bison descended from the last wild herd left in the U.S.
Denver acquired its initial herd from Yellowstone National Park.
The bison arrived at Genesee Bison Ranch in 1914.
Denver bison calves head to new homes after auction nets $48,300
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