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Sure, you just prefer slave like conditions, like "free" housing for labor rather than actually paying them. Of course at that point they are now indebted to their new masters, so getting out of such agreement might be difficult.
So yea, you are basically in favor of slavery.
I see you completely butchered the word "slavery." It's not slavery if the person has free will, meaning freedom of choice and freedom to pursuit happiness.
Now his inability of doing so does NOT make him slave. If that's true, aren't all employees slaves in one way or another? Unless you live in a farm and feed yourself, you are a slave. Hell, even the top paid CEOs are slaves.
There's a fundamental difference between "I am forbidden to choose by force, laws or decrees," and "I can't to choose because of my own situation." The former is slavery and the latter is NOT!
Some people dont know it costs an employer more than just their pay. You say 15 an hour is nothing. Well, give up fifteen an hour from your job. 28,800 a year is a lot of money to just give someone for minimum skills and work ethic, for example. Thats why we have Kiosks at some restaurants.
Oh well, some people on this thread think it is no big deal for an employer to pay more. Its not. They have business models, and are trying to make money for themselves. So, if people dont like the pay, dont take the job.
Are you kidding me? $28,800 is not a lot to pay an employee over the course of a year....if it is, then that business is obviously failing.
Funny you mention kiosks at restaurants, I personally think they are stupid and undermind the wait staff from being able to provide better service, but I have been to restaurants that use them. Each time, I still had a waiter taking my order and bringing me my food. The kiosks do sort of allow the waiter to serve more tables, but even that I would question because I feel like it tends to neglect the paying customers.
I think it is no big deal for a business to pay the minimum at least. I also keep pointing out that $15/hr isn't some high wage job that some on here keep pretending it is. If $15/hr is considered a lot of money to you, then you need to learn a better skill.
Just because a business is trying to make money for themselves is no excuse to short change their employees and take advantage of those that are desperate for employment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer
I see you completely butchered the word "slavery." It's not slavery if the person has free will, meaning freedom of choice and freedom to pursuit happiness.
Now his inability of doing so does NOT make him slave. If that's true, aren't all employees slaves in one way or another? Unless you live in a farm and feed yourself, you are a slave. Hell, even the top paid CEOs are slaves.
There's a fundamental difference between "I am forbidden to choose by force, laws or decrees," and "I can't to choose because of my own situation." The former is slavery and the latter is NOT!
Call it whatever you want, the meaning is still the same, and you have said before you would start a business if you could pay people a penny a day.
Are you kidding me? $28,800 is not a lot to pay an employee over the course of a year....if it is, then that business is obviously failing.
Funny you mention kiosks at restaurants, I personally think they are stupid and undermind the wait staff from being able to provide better service, but I have been to restaurants that use them. Each time, I still had a waiter taking my order and bringing me my food. The kiosks do sort of allow the waiter to serve more tables, but even that I would question because I feel like it tends to neglect the paying customers.
I think it is no big deal for a business to pay the minimum at least. I also keep pointing out that $15/hr isn't some high wage job that some on here keep pretending it is. If $15/hr is considered a lot of money to you, then you need to learn a better skill.
Just because a business is trying to make money for themselves is no excuse to short change their employees and take advantage of those that are desperate for employment.
Call it whatever you want, the meaning is still the same, and you have said before you would start a business if you could pay people a penny a day.
Nope, not kidding. If you have 2-20 employees, do the math.. Not all business make allot of money. Some are Mom n Pop stores, etc.
I can see this thread is heavily biased towards making the business owner look evil and incompetent.
I recommend all here to go ope your own business once you get out of the basement.
That is true, most jobs are worth more than $15/hr.
Sorry, some drone that presses buttons, lets a machine make change (if anyone even pays cash anymore), hands someone a receipt and a bag of food, is NOT worth $15/hr.
Are you kidding me? $28,800 is not a lot to pay an employee over the course of a year....if it is, then that business is obviously failing.
Funny you mention kiosks at restaurants, I personally think they are stupid and undermind the wait staff from being able to provide better service, but I have been to restaurants that use them. Each time, I still had a waiter taking my order and bringing me my food. The kiosks do sort of allow the waiter to serve more tables, but even that I would question because I feel like it tends to neglect the paying customers.
I think it is no big deal for a business to pay the minimum at least. I also keep pointing out that $15/hr isn't some high wage job that some on here keep pretending it is. If $15/hr is considered a lot of money to you, then you need to learn a better skill.
Just because a business is trying to make money for themselves is no excuse to short change their employees and take advantage of those that are desperate for employment.
Call it whatever you want, the meaning is still the same, and you have said before you would start a business if you could pay people a penny a day.
So what SHOULD a business be doing? Because providing for the general population is NOT the purpose of a business.
At the start I was sure you'd never owned a business. Now I'm just as sure you've never worked for one, either.
Nope, not kidding. If you have 2-20 employees, do the math.. Not all business make allot of money. Some are Mom n Pop stores, etc.
I can see this thread is heavily biased towards making the business owner look evil and incompetent.
I recommend all here to go ope your own business once you get out of the basement.
Last time I checked, Ma and Pa are still business owners, just because they are a sweet old couple working a little business doesn't give them a right to take advantage of their employees. This isn't about making them look evil and incompetent, this is about making sure employees receive at least the minimum in pay. Paying someone $15/hr isn't a high dollar job, and if Ma and Pa can't afford to pay someone $15/hr for their labor, then how are they going to be able to pay them $5/hr for their labor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise
Sorry, some drone that presses buttons, lets a machine make change (if anyone even pays cash anymore), hands someone a receipt and a bag of food, is NOT worth $15/hr.
That is your opinion, that "drone" or person, is providing their time at a value, $15 for an hour's worth of work is a small amount to pay someone. I do not understand why you guys keep acting like it is a lot of money to pay someone for labor. Who on this site is happy to be making less than $30K and year and considers themselves to be making a lot of money?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise
So what SHOULD a business be doing? Because providing for the general population is NOT the purpose of a business.
At the start I was sure you'd never owned a business. Now I'm just as sure you've never worked for one, either.
I never said it was the business's responsibility to provide for the general population, it is their responsibility to pay at least a minimum living wage so that those who work for them can afford basic things for their hours of labor. It is also not the taxpayer's responsibility to subsidies employment for those businesses that cannot afford to meet the minimum requirements.
You are free to make all the assumptions you like, I will gladly continue to point out that you are completely wrong, but we don't know each other, so I really don't care.
Last time I checked, Ma and Pa are still business owners, just because they are a sweet old couple working a little business doesn't give them a right to take advantage of their employees. This isn't about making them look evil and incompetent, this is about making sure employees receive at least the minimum in pay. Paying someone $15/hr isn't a high dollar job, and if Ma and Pa can't afford to pay someone $15/hr for their labor, then how are they going to be able to pay them $5/hr for their labor?
That is your opinion, that "drone" or person, is providing their time at a value, $15 for an hour's worth of work is a small amount to pay someone. I do not understand why you guys keep acting like it is a lot of money to pay someone for labor. Who on this site is happy to be making less than $30K and year and considers themselves to be making a lot of money?
I never said it was the business's responsibility to provide for the general population, it is their responsibility to pay at least a minimum living wage so that those who work for them can afford basic things for their hours of labor. It is also not the taxpayer's responsibility to subsidies employment for those businesses that cannot afford to meet the minimum requirements.
You are free to make all the assumptions you like, I will gladly continue to point out that you are completely wrong, but we don't know each other, so I really don't care.
Math is not your strong point. 10 more dollars an hour is a huge difference in pay. You state, if they cant afford a 15/hr how are they going to afford 5/hr. Well, 5/hr would be 3 employees vice 1 for 15/hr. ,
We are not going to agree. You have a nice day and I hope when you open your own business you will pay everyone way over their worth.. Business cost allot to run, and they arent charities, which most liberals think they should be..
Hell we do not need any minimum wages. Let the poor work for nothing or just room and board. I'll bet there are plenty of starving desperate poor theat would sign themselves into slavery just to get fed. Wouldn't that be fair to the employers? Think how much more money WalMart would make if it did not have to pay its workers.
IMHO if a business owner cannot afford to pay a decent wage he should do the work himself.
Hell we do not need any minimum wages. Let the poor work for nothing or just room and board. I'll bet there are plenty of starving desperate poor theat would sign themselves into slavery just to get fed. Wouldn't that be fair to the employers? Think how much more money WalMart would make if it did not have to pay its workers.
IMHO if a business owner cannot afford to pay a decent wage he should do the work himself.
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