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Old 09-22-2016, 07:34 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,222,338 times
Reputation: 17209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
Based on my past experience actually assisting in investigations of cases like the pepper spray one, nearly 100% chance the officer who sprayed her is sanctioned. Unless he has prior sustained use of force complaints, he cannot lose his job for that unless he is probationary.
Your experience is very, very minimal.

Chatham County sheriff's deputy fired, arrested for pepper spraying restrained inmate

VIDEO: Chatham County sheriff's deputy fired, arrested for pepper spraying restrained inmate | SavannahNow

 
Old 09-22-2016, 07:56 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,045,820 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post

The embedded video shows nothing except an out of control teen resisting attempts to calm her down and get her medical care. The comments of the bystanders are irrelevant may not reflect reality at all. Is there actual video of cops slamming her head into a wall? The embedded video proves nothing and doesn't even show much of anything.
 
Old 09-22-2016, 08:03 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,045,820 times
Reputation: 14993
By the way, just in general, if you are holding a gun, and fail to put it down immediately when told to drop it by a peace officer, you deserve to be shot. The act of failing to disarm is by definition an act of violence against the peace officer. I don't care if you are walking forwards or backwards or sideways or lying down or sitting down or standing on your head or facing the officer or facing away from the officer or facing Mecca or the Statue of Liberty. Officer says drop it, and you don't, you are likely to be shot, and you should be shot. Failing to yield and obey when holding a firearm is justification for a reasonable expectation of getting shot.
 
Old 09-22-2016, 08:07 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,222,338 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
The embedded video shows nothing except an out of control teen resisting attempts to calm her down and get her medical care. The comments of the bystanders are irrelevant may not reflect reality at all. Is there actual video of cops slamming her head into a wall? The embedded video proves nothing and doesn't even show much of anything.
She was knocked unconscience......Perhaps a concussion? Is this the way you handle someone with a concussion? They said they had to detain her to take her to the hospital but then they held her for three hours. Do you realize the damage that three hours could have caused someone with a hit to the head?

What was the point of pepper spraying her while secured in the back seat?

Md. police release video of girl being pepper sprayed in cruiser | WTOP
 
Old 09-22-2016, 08:09 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,222,338 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
By the way, just in general, if you are holding a gun, and fail to put it down immediately when told to drop it by a peace officer, you deserve to be shot. The act of failing to disarm is by definition an act of violence against the peace officer. I don't care if you are walking forwards or backwards or sideways or lying down or sitting down or standing on your head or facing the officer or facing away from the officer or facing Mecca or the Statue of Liberty. Officer says drop it, and you don't, you are likely to be shot, and you should be shot. Failing to yield and obey when holding a firearm is justification for a reasonable expectation of getting shot.
If you are threatened while exercising your constitutional rights you have the legal right to protect yourself.....including lethal force.
 
Old 09-22-2016, 08:21 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,769,894 times
Reputation: 2981
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Your experience is very, very minimal.

Chatham County sheriff's deputy fired, arrested for pepper spraying restrained inmate

VIDEO: Chatham County sheriff's deputy fired, arrested for pepper spraying restrained inmate | SavannahNow
Three things here.

One, the deputy was charged with a felony (cruelty to an inmate), which the courts have ruled is sufficient grounds to terminate without prior incidents (for all public employees, not just police and sheriffs).
§ 42-4-5 - Cruelty to inmates :: 2010 Georgia Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

The incident in original your link would not warrant felony charges even if charges are filed. Maryland, has a bizarre situation where sentences of up to 10 years can still be misdemeanors (original 13 colony states often have weird laws like this; in non-colony states, anything over 1 year imprisonment is generally a felony). Assault in the first degree (an aggravated assault) would not fit because there was no serious injury nor use of a firearm. Assault in the second degree is a misdemeanor in Maryland. It could be an appropriate charge in this situation (though the officer has a couple of defenses available), but since it is a misdemeanor, it is not enough to terminate without a pattern of misconduct.

§ 42-4-5 - Cruelty to inmates :: 2010 Georgia Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

Two, as you can see in the statute in the fist link, felony cruelty to an inmate in Georgia mandates removal from office.

Three is more complex.
Most of the time we do not differentiate between police and sheriff, but for Loudermill rights, there is an important distinction. Command staff for police (captain and up or lt and up) are considered merit employees (police officers) serving at the pleasure of the chief and the chief is considered a patronage position. Police chiefs can be fired without cause. Command staff can be demoted to non-command without cause, but not terminated beyond that.
But the sheriff is an elected position, and sheriff's command staff (sgt and up) are considered pure patronage positions appointed by an elected official. Like all patronage positions, they have no Loudermill rights and due process protections. They can be fired at the pleasure of the elected official who appointed them.
Non-command deputies may or may not be considered patronage depending on the county/state. But unlike police command staff who are police officers serving in command roles, sheriff's command staff are considered to be serving directly in their patronage role.

As you can see by the statute above, the role of a jailer (command and non-command deputies in Georgia) is considered a public patronage position (an office), and not a merit position, so due process and Loudermill protections do not apply.
 
Old 09-22-2016, 08:23 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,222,338 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
Three things here.

One, the deputy was charged with a felony (cruelty to an inmate), which the courts have ruled is sufficient grounds to terminate without prior incidents (for all public employees, not just police and sheriffs). The incident in original your link would not warrant felony charges even if charges are filed.
For some reason I doubt your opinion will be sought after.
 
Old 09-22-2016, 09:07 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,769,894 times
Reputation: 2981
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
For some reason I doubt your opinion will be sought after.
I doubt it too.
At least I know the difference between a patronage employee and merit employee.
 
Old 09-22-2016, 10:37 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,045,820 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
If you are threatened while exercising your constitutional rights you have the legal right to protect yourself.....including lethal force.
No, you don't. You have no rights when you are a thug on the streets brandishing an illegal firearm and are told by a peace officer to drop it. Stop playing phony games with arguments about rights. You know damned well that thugs on the streets brandishing handguns are not worried about anyone's rights, including their own. They are worried about violating rights, not protecting them. The state is given a monopoly on the initiation of violent force. That's how civilization works and that is how it differs from the law of the jungle. If you are brandishing a firearm and are told to drop it, you have the right to die if you continue to disobey. That is moral, correct, and the only rational way to run a civilized country. Now if your goal is something else...
 
Old 09-22-2016, 10:40 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,045,820 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
She was knocked unconscience......Perhaps a concussion? Is this the way you handle someone with a concussion? They said they had to detain her to take her to the hospital but then they held her for three hours. Do you realize the damage that three hours could have caused someone with a hit to the head?

What was the point of pepper spraying her while secured in the back seat?

Md. police release video of girl being pepper sprayed in cruiser | WTOP

The pepper spray could indeed be necessary if she is hysterical and physically resisting and failing to behave in a quiet and orderly fashion.
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