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Just because YOU have rights doesn't mean you should be complacent to those around you who may be stripped of them, like the retired school teacher in Long Branch, NJ...
One cannot be "stripped of rights" that one does not have. No property owner has ever had any superior right against eminent domain in the legal history of this country, nor in the legal traditions that preceded it over many centuries before that. Property ownership does not under any stretch of the imagination imply exclusive rights or exclusive interests and never has.
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Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak
You also don't see that the child tax credits you receive (presumably from the mommy handle) are often taken under consideration when people choose to have more children as opposed to less.
Got any numbers to back that up? The average cost of raising a middle-class child from the age of 0 to 18 is in excess of $250,000. Few would be in a situation to muster tax credits of as much as 10% of that. Child tax credits are not an incentive to have more children. They are an effort to relieve families of some small part of what has become the extreme burden of attempting to raise children at all.
I guess I've always had a cynical outlook, but I agree with this. It may not explain everything, may not excuse our responsibility, but it certainly IS a factor..it's just plain human nature to resent the smug, arrogant "rich guy", period. Such envy occurs in all societies, whether it's 'condoned' or not. It happens in the workplace, it happens in the classroom, and it happens in the arena of world affairs.
Ever hear the old expression in EVERY old "tough guy" movie ever written, "Wipe that SMILE off your face"? It's saying, in essence "you're rich--or good-looking--or happy...And I'm not. I'm poor, plain-looking, and frustrated, and I want to PUNCH YOU OUT"....It's as human as any quality, and it begins in early childhood, the desire to 'deflate' the pompous, the smug, and to 'topple' the self-satisfied right off their 'pedestal'.
And that's us.
We've even seen Americans on here express "envy" for the lifestyles of other Americans, considering them smug, pompous, and arrogant, only to find that those people are typically the most compassionate and helpful to those who deserve help, when the truth is known. I believe this to be the case with the U.S., when the foreign media selectively provides analysis of U.S. policies and principles, without providing any information about the significant amount of good the U.S. does for the citizens of our allies and our enemies alike.
One cannot be "stripped of rights" that one does not have. No property owner has ever had any superior right against eminent domain in the legal history of this country, nor in the legal traditions that preceded it over many centuries before that. Property ownership does not under any stretch of the imagination imply exclusive rights or exclusive interests and never has.
Back in the day, no private developer was permitted to usurp property rights from an individual. If you wish to dispute this, please offer me one case in particular where a private interest used eminent domain against another private interest and won. Several would be better to establish a consistent pattern, but one would suffice.
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Got any numbers to back that up? The average cost of raising a middle-class child from the age of 0 to 18 is in excess of $250,000. Few would be in a situation to muster tax credits of as much as 10% of that. Child tax credits are not an incentive to have more children.
You're right, I don't have numbers. It doesn't take rocket science to determine that incentivizing something, like homeownership, floods the system with additional applications and abuse of the system. However, I concede that I have no proof, nor is such proof possible to obtain.
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They are an effort to relieve families of some small part of what has become the extreme burden of attempting to raise children at all.
Catch phrases like this are paramount for those who like to divert attention from social engineering in the tax code.
I think you are underestimating the forces opposed to Allende. There would have most likely been a coup regardless of what the US had to say about it. Allende was the Chavez of the 1970s and the majority (despite him winning the election, he only got about a third of the vote) of people were starting to lose patience with him, plus his siding with Cuba and Soviets made a lot of people nervous, it was only a matter of time before something big happened.
As for the actions of South American countries, yes, it has nothing to do with US imperialism, but it does go to show that if anything US "imperialism" has probably saved more lives in Latin America than ended. It also goes to show that most people who complain about imperialism hold the US to a higher standard. When pretty much every country is doing what your doing, why be singled out?
Have embargoes ever ended a regime?
I'm not arguing the merits of US imperialism either or pro or contra, I'm just saying that these actions lead to resentments by other countries. You may well be right that things might well have been just as bad or worse under Allende, and we'll never know. Unfortunately, we do know what happened under Pinochet.
I do disagree with your second point. Meddling in everyone's affairs is different from fighting one neighboring country. Maybe that meddling was ultimately positive, maybe not. But it certainly did not make friends.
I believe South Africa is one example where embargoes (and other sanctions) led to the end of the apartheid regime. I do not know if any other examples exist.
Anyway, maybe you and I should just agree to disagree. I do thank you for a civil discourse.
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Originally Posted by The Truth Detective
I believe that many people from other countries are jealous of our standards of living and the opportunities that we have. I believe it's more about that than freedoms.....
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Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak
This I can agree with. In terms of raw capitalism, it is difficult to find a suitable alternative. However, the next administration may very well take care of that by villifying capitalism for somehow causing the housing depression.
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Originally Posted by macmeal
I guess I've always had a cynical outlook, but I agree with this. It may not explain everything, may not excuse our responsibility, but it certainly IS a factor..it's just plain human nature to resent the smug, arrogant "rich guy", period. Such envy occurs in all societies, whether it's 'condoned' or not. It happens in the workplace, it happens in the classroom, and it happens in the arena of world affairs.
Ever hear the old expression in EVERY old "tough guy" movie ever written, "Wipe that SMILE off your face"? It's saying, in essence "you're rich--or good-looking--or happy...And I'm not. I'm poor, plain-looking, and frustrated, and I want to PUNCH YOU OUT"....It's as human as any quality, and it begins in early childhood, the desire to 'deflate' the pompous, the smug, and to 'topple' the self-satisfied right off their 'pedestal'.
And that's us.
I'm not so sure about that. The US standard of living is no higher than in many Western European countries, so it's not anything that sets the US apart.
Besides, while it might instill jealousy, it doesn't usually lead to hate. Quite the contrary, the high standard of living makes people want to come here, not tear the place down.
One cannot be "stripped of rights" that one does not have. No property owner has ever had any superior right against eminent domain in the legal history of this country,.....
I want to make clear that while the government MAY have the right of eminent domain, it is, by no means, automatic.
There are many cases where a Government has claimed eminent domain, went to court, and lost.
Ah, an "anchor baby" then, or is there some different term that applies in your case?
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Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak
Many of the people who are immigrating here are only doing so to avoid paying taxes (border crossers)...
Rather unsuccessfully in nearly all cases.
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Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak
...[to] get free medical care (ER)...
Which is actually provided to everyone in such circumstances.
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Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak
...and [to] use the free public school system.
For which they pay the same property taxes you do, whether as owners, renters, or patrons at a transient hotel.
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Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak
This financial raping comes at a cost to the American taxpayer and falls short of their cheap labor efforts to drive an economy.
Can you name any serious analyst who does not conclude that undocumented workers contribute tens of billions of dollars worth of additional net output to the economy?
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Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak
Now that we're in a housing depression, I doubt we need them in such large degrees anymore.
Problems in credit markets brought about by the lax oversight and regulation regimes associated with laissez-faire free-market capitalism may well result in an economic downturn. The corporate incentive to preserve profits by cutting even further into overall labor costs will thus be increased.
This I can agree with. In terms of raw capitalism, it is difficult to find a suitable alternative.
Almost any alternative to "raw capitalism" would be preferable. There being so many, some might indeed find difficulty in picking which one to call suitable.
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Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak
However, the next administration may very well take care of that by villifying capitalism for somehow causing the housing depression.
That will be just one entry on the List of Villification, and while one might want to forecast some excesses in the actual process of villification as it is carried out, it will remain true that much of the coming excoriation will have been richly earned and deserved...
I'm on my way to work because I live in a different time zone but have a few comments that will span 2 or 3 posts:
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Originally Posted by lilypad
It would be nice if all the America haters could find homes elsewhere, wouldn't it? Not going to happen. But it keeps us on our toes. Stay on the lookout, they are everywhere and growing in numbers, as the government run school system continues to churn out little socialists who hate America first. Got some in my family, sadly. Just gotta deal with them--at a long arm's length.
First of all, I’d appreciate it if you would answer the OP; comments like yours are the reason why I started this thread. The “love it or leave it” group are what caused the problems we currently face by neglecting to look at societal problems decades ago. If you’re not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
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Originally Posted by momlady530
Very valid point. What irks the bejesus out of me is the 2 people on here who do not live in this country yet take it upon themselves to cut America down. Its one thing to point out the faults of your own country (or children), but its completely different for someone who doesn't even live here to complain about things of which they know nothing.
Guess what, since I know you’re talking about me, and I thought you weren’t going to engage me any more, I’m serving the US government overseas. I believe I’ve mentioned that numerous times; but some people ignore what they don’t want to hear. That’s why I’m not living in the US. I pay taxes and I vote, I am required to follow the same laws as you, no matter where I live. So please, your ignorance is showing (once again). BTW, I lived in the US for over 50 years. How about you?
Can you please stick to the OP? Your personal attacks grow tiresome.
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Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni
Another example is American relations with other countries. When the United States does business with Saudi Arabia, Pinochet's Chile, or any country with a lousy human rights record, the "critics" often go on tirades about how the US is helping prop up these dictatorships. These are often the same people who complain about the embargo on Cuba and blame it on the poverty of Cuba. America is the bad guy for trading with Saudi Arabia and it's the bad guy for not trading with Cuba.
i am not sure you could appreciate what this country has to offer unless you lived in another one.
lots of assumptions by americans, everybody lives like we do and gets treated like we do. best shot
is telling you remember how mad TSA gets you for 20 minutes at security? well its like that all the time other places.
I love it here, was gone for years, wont do it again.
I have and do currently live in another country.
I disagree with the TSA comment. I travel all over the world. I don’t have problems with security like I do in the US.
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Originally Posted by JTraik
[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22573281/]
Other countries must like streets cleaner than their bodies, most of the odious people I have met have been European. Americans and Asians tend value hygiene the most.
You need to get out more.
I travel extensively and have worked in several nations without this experience. Yes, including the EU.
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Originally Posted by bibit612
I understand that throwing out chewing gum on the street is punishable by law in Singapore! My cousins live there.
You might try that occurred a decade ago and the reasoning was that kids were chewing gum and mucking up the rail system. I don’t agree with the outcome, but please, do try to provide the entire story, not only the “omg” part. Please check current law; you are authorized a certain amount of gum for private use. Absurd, to me, yes; but please give the whole picture.
As for the actions of South American countries, yes, it has nothing to do with US imperialism, but it does go to show that if anything US "imperialism" has probably saved more lives in Latin America than ended. It also goes to show that most people who complain about imperialism hold the US to a higher standard. When pretty much every country is doing what your doing, why be singled out?
Maybe because I don’t want my government doing it at all. Who are we to be the dictators of the world? Do you perhaps remember the School of the Americas? We taught torture techniques that were used on innocent people.
Just because other countries do it, or we’re not as bad as other countries, doesn’t make it right – or legal.
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Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak
Ya know, it's a sad day when blind patriots try to defend a corrupt increasingly socialist government like ours instead of questioning it, then use an example involving a contemptable country with draconian laws such as Saudi Arabia to make ours look better.
Absolutely.
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Originally Posted by saganista
Few in this country favor unregulated economic freedom or an unrestricted right to bear arms. Meanwhile, our health care system is a disgrace, and to hear the right-wing tell it, our educational system is as well. Our public finances are simply a mess, our public infrastructure is headed toward being non-existent, our foreign policy is a joke, our environmental policies promote exploitation and degradation, we have the least efficient transit systems in the developed world, we have the highest income-disparities and the highest rates of incarceration in the developed world, our currency is next to worthless in historical terms, and all the while, we continue to spend more on national defense than the entire rest of the world combined. How much of this is worthy of envy again?
I thought we were talking about freedoms on this thread. Why don't we ask the legal immigrants how the US compares to freedoms in the countries they left?
Because that is not the OP. You are free to start your own thread.
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Originally Posted by The Truth Detective
I believe that many people from other countries are jealous of our standards of living and the opportunities that we have. I believe it's more about that than freedoms.....
While I appreciate your comment, that was not the OP.
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