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Well, that relates to an aspect of the US which I think contributes to our high prison population and "police state" tendencies: there isn't very good "social enforcement" of the social contract. In a country like Norway, it is extremely rare to remand someone to prison custody during or after a criminal trial. Instead, the convict is given a window of time during which to "report" to serve his sentence. Compliance rates are extremely high under this system, and people rarely abscond. The ones who have absconded - and hence, the ones who get taken straight to Norwegian jail - are mostly "visible immigrants." Which is to say, people who aren't part of "Norwegian" society as such.
Social enforcement can be a very powerful mechanism. A culture with effective social enforcement will have low incarceration and serious crime rates, because the social norms of the culture discourage lawlessness. If you break the law, you have to face the scorn of your family, your community, and to some extent, of your "race." There is a sense that you are abusing your patrimony by being antisocial.
The US has much less of this sort of social enforcement. Instead, we ask our police services to fill that gap. This is not an ideal solution, because police are legal enforcement agents, not social enforcers. Police only have very blunt tools - arrest, citation, confinement, etc. They don't have the ability to exert constant and subtle social pressure against lawbreaking.
The question, I suppose, is whether or not social enforcement will continue to decline, which would mean demands for an even-larger police role in society.
This is a positvely STELLAR post, and deserves to be read and RE-READ by ANYBODY flirting with the thought that "multiculturalism" would be a "really neat" way to live.....If THIS doesn't illustrate the reason we need a 'common set of values", I don't know what would....readers?...
But I find contemporary America very discouraging; the lack of interest for maintaining freedoms, the lack of interest to question authority, the widespread gullibility, and overall apathy. These are not the traits of the society of a great nation.
"Discouraging" doesn't really cover it. Some part of us is turning into NewsMax Nation, as uninformed, as superstitious, and as easily led by demagogues as some of the most backward societies on earth.
I have to disagree with the above. The reason that the US isn't so well-liked in many developing countries is that the US government has often times at some point in the past supported a brutal military dictatorship in that country. It's naive to believe that the US hasn't been abusive in the past in pursuit of its foreign policy interest (much of it in the past half-century centered on keeping the communists out of power at all costs, without regard for human lives).
Especially talking to some South American friends, they often have friends or family that were killed during those dictatorships by the military with US support.
As far as the more wealthy Western countries, the more recent dislike seems to be strongly connected to the Iraq war.
On some points, though you're making my case. "We" have supported brutal dictatorships that "backed our interests", true enough. (forgetting, for a MOMENT, that their 'opposition' may have been EQUALLY brutal, if not WORSE)...and for that 'support", we're resented by the 'locals'. These same 'locals' don't resent Albania, or Estonia, or Sri Lanka, or Haiti.....but is that because these countries are 'nicer' than the USA, or is it simply because these countries are too small and weak to have ANY effect on the 'world at large', good OR bad?
What irks the bejesus out of me is the 2 people on here who do not live in this country yet take it upon themselves to cut America down. Its one thing to point out the faults of your own country (or children), but its completely different for someone who doesn't even live here to complain about things of which they know nothing.
You want Freedom Fries with that? You want to tell us what WE should do about Hugo Chavez, that guy the people who live in Venezuela keep re-electing by large majorities? Better adjust to the fact that, as an actor on the world stage, the US is more than validly the subject, and sadly sometimes the target, of world opinion. A gated-community, members-only attitude just isn't going to cut the mustard anymore...
Are any of you posters parents? Did you ever criticize your children - that means you hate them, right?
It's not about criticism, a lot of "critics" really do seem to hate America, take military action and historical events out context, and hold the US to a higher standard than the rest of the world.
For example, I often see these "critics" (I'm using quotation marks to refer to people who hide behind criticism, but actually have an ulterior motive) accuse the US of imperialism both past and present. While the United States has engaged in imperialism in the past and many of its current actions are questionable, it is no worse than many other countries in world. For example, Latin American nations have conducted more imperialism against each other than the US ever has. Bolivia lost its entire coast in a war with Chile in the 1930s, Paraguay had more than half of its population killed off by Brazil, Uruguay, and Argentina in the War of the Triple Alliance, and these are just a few examples. The people of Latin America killed each other on scale that would do the Middle East proud over land and resources, yet America is an imperialist bully when it sends in Marines to protect banana plantations. The nations that committed waged these are often portrayed as perpetual victims of American imperialism by numerous Leftists.
Another example is American relations with other countries. When the United States does business with Saudi Arabia, Pinochet's Chile, or any country with a lousy human rights record, the "critics" often go on tirades about how the US is helping prop up these dictatorships. These are often the same people who complain about the embargo on Cuba and blame it on the poverty of Cuba. America is the bad guy for trading with Saudi Arabia and it's the bad guy for not trading with Cuba.
I'm not saying that I support any and all American foreign policy decisions. I generally don't like embargoes, they often negatively impact the civilian populace while allow dictators to live a life of luxury and blame all problems on the embargo. I think the US should have pressured Pinochet to respect human rights and encouraged him to make the move towards democracy quicker. I think the Bush Administration has had the worst diplomatic skills of any Presidency in living memory, its almost as if they want everyone to disagree with them.
Without getting into this too deeply, the Federal government imposed tariffs on the southern states for foreign bought goods simply to force them to buy their goods from northern states, a perfect example of a violation of states rights.
Well, on behalf of steel-producing states, thanks for not attacking us again when Bush imposed the steel tariffs. Very decent of you all, really...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn
Thank god the southern states stood against the tyranny of the federal government.
Yeah, the Civil War was one of our great moments. We should do that more often...
So, really, what are the special freedoms that only Americans possess? After all, that is the OP.
Once again, there are NO special freedoms that "only Americans" possess..that's a simplistic, loaded question, which you KNOW is nonsense. America's claim to fame is that it gives more freedoms than MOST countries, to a population FAR more diverse than MOST populations, who have far fewer restrictions than MOST.
Individual cases can, and will, vary. To say there's a dangerous bully living in a backwoods trailer in Tennessee who "whups' his wife, and a solicitous resident of Riyadh who "does the dishes" each day and brings roses to his spouse each evening, does NOT mean "American women have no special advantage, and no better standing in society, than women in Saudi Arabia"....it's a nonsense scenario, under carefully controlled 'conditions". ANYTHING could be 'proven' or 'disproven', given enough conditions...
You want Freedom Fries with that? You want to tell us what WE should do about Hugo Chavez, that guy the people who live in Venezuela keep re-electing by large majorities? Better adjust to the fact that, as an actor on the world stage, the US is more than validly the subject, and sadly sometimes the target, of world opinion. A gated-community, members-only attitude just isn't going to cut the mustard anymore...
I see your point. Everyone can bash America. Go for it. But America will still be there for those same countries when they need.
I will more than willingly admit that our country has many, many flaws. I won't list them here due to space considerations. My point was that the person who started this thread doesn't even live here. If the tone less accusatory and more inquiring I'd have no problem. But someone who does not live here cannot speak intelligently about the problems we face. For example, I lived in California for 3 years more than 5 years ago. It would be egotistical, arrogant, and downright stupid of me to go on the California boards here and bash Cali because I do not understand the current climate there. Or since I visited Canada twice maybe I should deem myself knowledgeable on all things Canadian. I have no problems with people who truly understand America's issues bashing America. I've been known to join in quite frequently. My issue lies with people who do not know what they're speaking of bashing something my husband has spent 10 years serving.
Where I grew up, I don't believe that there is a right to bear arms...
And burning the flag is NOT a right. It is not part of freedom of expression. You cannot "wear" the flag, you cannot disrespect the flag, you cannot hang it upside down nor hang someone's flag above it...anywhere!
Once again, there are NO special freedoms that "only Americans" possess..that's a simplistic, loaded question, which you KNOW is nonsense. America's claim to fame is that it gives more freedoms than MOST countries, to a population FAR more diverse than MOST populations, who have far fewer restrictions than MOST.
Individual cases can, and will, vary. To say there's a dangerous bully living in a backwoods trailer in Tennessee who "whups' his wife, and a solicitous resident of Riyadh who "does the dishes" each day and brings roses to his spouse each evening, does NOT mean "American women have no special advantage, and no better standing in society, than women in Saudi Arabia"....it's a nonsense scenario, under carefully controlled 'conditions". ANYTHING could be 'proven' or 'disproven', given enough conditions...
I can't rep you again, but thank you for saying what I couldn't.
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