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Old 12-20-2016, 10:13 AM
 
18,804 posts, read 8,477,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jman0war View Post
But that actually makes the US system look worse again.
Since the Avg number of doctor visits per capita is quite a bit below OECD average.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ta-by-country/

That means there are fewer visits to doctor, fewer doctors seeing those patients, highest wages for those doctors and highest percapita expenditure.


That reads like the HC system may be creating an artificial shortage, thus charges higher prices.
As I have said, most docs charges are preset by 3rd parties. And you can bet that most docs are not very happy with what they are paid. Expectations. I have had no palpable raise in 30 years!

Also as I said, docs wages are but a small part of overall HC costs. So if docs are searching and supplementing their incomes, they typically are spending 5 or 6X more than their added income on testings and such to do so.

So whatever general path we take with future HC delivery reforms, we will need to make sure that the docs are adequately compensated.

 
Old 12-20-2016, 10:19 AM
 
1,285 posts, read 592,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
As I have said, most docs charges are preset by 3rd parties. And you can bet that most docs are not very happy with what they are paid. Expectations. I have had no palpable raise in 30 years!

Also as I said, docs wages are but a small part of overall HC costs. So if docs are searching and supplementing their incomes, they typically are spending 5 or 6X more than their added income on testings and such to do so.

So whatever general path we take with future HC delivery reforms, we will need to make sure that the docs are adequately compensated.
I would be surprised if they felt they were not adequately compensated.
I suppose other doctors in countries with nationalized healthcare are not always shouldering such debt to get there.

This is interesting.
10 Highest Paid Countries in the World for Doctors - Medic Footprints
 
Old 12-20-2016, 10:58 AM
 
8,502 posts, read 3,344,621 times
Reputation: 7035
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Only if work is performed in exchange for that support. Did you somehow miss that?

Kids? That's the parents' responsibility. They'll have to work in exchange for society supporting their kids.
Per earlier comments in this thread, some of the parents may well not be responsible. If we're not to return to Charles Dickens, would you not provide the kids with "3 cots and a hot"? If the answer is that you would make an "exception" for children in your system, how then do you separate kids who cannot work to support themselves from the ill and elderly who likewise are unable to do so but who have no attached healthy working adult?

Like it or not, once you enter in to some sort of societal web there comes some degree of communal responsibility. How and to what extent is, of course, variable and subject to fierce debate in an open, democratic society. But the issue is on a continuum.

Too, you undoubtedly benefit from the web you are a member of by virtue of your citizenship. Have employer-provided insurance? The government does not tax you for the value of the employer contribution. Take a drug? The cost of the underlying government funded research that the drug companies later commercialize isn't accounted for in the drug cost. Have an older spouse or maybe a few kids? I'm subsidizing you with my expensive plus one policy (me and one healthy kid).

What about the non-economic issues? Maybe the salary of the health care worker who may someday feed you and handle your diapers is depressed because he/she does not have the skills or speak English well enough to command higher pay. Maybe he or she does not even pay any Federal income taxes. But where would you be if that health care worker did not exist - if the skill levels of ALL workers were such that no one wanted to provide the care you needed at the price you could afford. Can you seriously argue that the existence of that worker - that they have life and health supported by the society of which are you a part - does not benefit you?

Seriously?
 
Old 12-20-2016, 11:05 AM
 
18,804 posts, read 8,477,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jman0war View Post
I would be surprised if they felt they were not adequately compensated.
I suppose other doctors in countries with nationalized healthcare are not always shouldering such debt to get there.

This is interesting.
10 Highest Paid Countries in the World for Doctors - Medic Footprints
Similar to our current rural/rust belt job/earning laggers, docs have made little progress with incomes since the '80's. Of course we started much higher than median back then. But little in the way of a raise in 30 years.

For new docs it is close to no longer making financial sense due to time and education costs.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 11:10 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,376,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Similar to our current rural/rust belt job/earning laggers, docs have made little progress with incomes since the '80's. Of course we started much higher than median back then. But little in the way of a raise in 30 years.

For new docs it is close to no longer making financial sense due to time and education costs.
Which explains why it's becoming more and more difficult to find a GP under the age of fifty.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 11:13 AM
 
18,804 posts, read 8,477,217 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Which explains why it's becoming more and more difficult to find a GP under the age of fifty.
Overhead will kill you. Unless you go employed or share expenses in a group. As I have cut back to a 4 day week on the way toward retirement, I barely make any money in the office. My daughter is a 3rd year medical resident and will probably stay at the university or maybe join Kaiser in or near Portland.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 11:20 AM
 
26,507 posts, read 15,088,692 times
Reputation: 14666
I support Trump’s claim that he will keep preexisting conditions.

If we are honest, Healthcare needed to be reformed, but Obamacare is not a long term solution. 31 million nonelderly people will be uninsured still a decade from now.

I'd be fine with France's system.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 11:29 AM
 
1,285 posts, read 592,362 times
Reputation: 762
If US universities are not competitive, those trying to get into medicine would do well to look elsewhere for their education.

But since the US is physically isolated by two large oceans from most the rest of the world, studying abroad is a concept they are simply unfamiliar with.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 11:31 AM
 
1,285 posts, read 592,362 times
Reputation: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
I support Trump’s claim that he will keep preexisting conditions.

If we are honest, Healthcare needed to be reformed, but Obamacare is not a long term solution. 31 million nonelderly people will be uninsured still a decade from now.

I'd be fine with France's system.
Trump is not going to address HC costs at all.
Which is the real elephant in the room.
He's just going to try and shift who pays for it.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 11:37 AM
 
1,850 posts, read 821,195 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
NJ, how do you handle your health care insurance? Are you currently covered by an employer-subsidized policy?
Nope, I buy my own. Oh, and before someone starts screaming "Obamacare!!" you can buy your own healthcare insurance outside of Obamacare and you always could.
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