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If one wants to have some idea of the missed gains....let's pretend (yes, it is a fantasy) that the "businessman" Trump was good at economic and was somehow able to help the economy along on the path it was going.....plus a bit of a goose. That goose could have come from lots of things, including confidence (paying down the deficits!) and by juicing EV's and Alternative Energy and such....
A "very good" stock market (not a total boom or bubble) could have easily be up 1% per month or 12% per year since the start of this thread (20 months...=20%).
The stock market is worth about 30 Trillion. This means at least 6 TRILLION dollars in potential gains which have either never occurred or been wiped out.
Of course, this will mean less taxes collected.....and more and more deficits in the far future, let alone the effects on individuals and corporations and pension funds and many other institutions.
Putting that number in perspective, it's probably close the total EXTRA cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (over and above normal budgets) from 2002 up until today.
What took even GWB many years to "accomplish", Trump has done by tweeting perhaps a total of 3 hours worth...
Sometimes I really have to wonder how or why so many threads far more worthy get closed while threads like this ridiculous one continue on forever. Not that I'm generally understanding of closing ANY thread, but this one lives on for reasons also very hard to understand. Or maybe it's time to check just one thing before any further judgement...
Any Trump supporters who no longer believe Trump is the absolute greatest on the economy?
Any anti-Trump people who now think Trump is actually the absolute greatest on the economy?
As of today, 64% of Independents (voters) disapprove of Trump. I would say that is some indication that the needle moves....
It's better to measure things over time....which this thread does...then to have 100's of threads declaring "the market has hit new highs"...some of which we had a month or two ago!
But even if you look at the first couple of pages you will see that the majority of posts seem to think Trump is clueless.....so whether more people now do is an open question.
His numbers have been negative since the week he took office. Far into the negative.
The only constant is that the same 40%, which probably consists of the 30% who still thought GWB was fine at the end of his term...plus some additional deplorables and those who like Reality TV....seems to stay within 3 points (40-43%).
If one wants to have some idea of the missed gains....let's pretend (yes, it is a fantasy) that the "businessman" Trump was good at economic and was somehow able to help the economy along on the path it was going.....plus a bit of a goose. That goose could have come from lots of things, including confidence (paying down the deficits!) and by juicing EV's and Alternative Energy and such....
A "very good" stock market (not a total boom or bubble) could have easily be up 1% per month or 12% per year since the start of this thread (20 months...=20%).
The stock market is worth about 30 Trillion. This means at least 6 TRILLION dollars in potential gains which have either never occurred or been wiped out.
Of course, this will mean less taxes collected.....and more and more deficits in the far future, let alone the effects on individuals and corporations and pension funds and many other institutions.
Putting that number in perspective, it's probably close the total EXTRA cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (over and above normal budgets) from 2002 up until today.
What took even GWB many years to "accomplish", Trump has done by tweeting perhaps a total of 3 hours worth...
Thats not how math works. A 1% gain every month for 12 or 20 months is not just a 12% or 20% gain.
It's better to measure things over time....which this thread does...then to have 100's of threads declaring "the market has hit new highs"...some of which we had a month or two ago!
Let's remember that the all time record high for the Dow prior to the 2008 crash occurred in October 2007, well after the warning signs for recession were flashing red. Of course at the time, you had Bush loyalists still praising the economy while denying that there was even a problem. At worst, they simply said it would be a mild slowdown and not a full-fledged recession.
Today, it feels like we are reliving those days all over again.
Again, if you weren't so uninformed/misinformed, you would know what he actually said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Actually he said that there are fine people on both sides. How can you interpret that any other way?
It would be helpful to know what he actually said.
President Trump first unequivocally condemned the white nationalists. He then addressed the two groups of peaceful protesters (not ANTIFA, and not the white nationalists). That is who he was talking about when he said there were fine people on both sides.
And just so there was no possible way to misinterpret what he said, he immediately said that he was not talking about the white nationalists.
So if you actually heard what President Trump said, you would know without any doubt that President Trump never said white nationalists were fine people. In fact, he couldn't have made it clearer that he was completely condemning the white nationalists.
If you don't believe me, watch the press conference for yourself.
Maybe after this, Americans will realize that Republicans cannot be trusted with the U.S. economy. Twice in a decade, we've had a Republican administration cause an economic crisis (three times in two decades if you count Bush's 2001 recession). I guess that's why Republicans focus so much on cultural issues like race, religion, LGBT, etc. It's now likely going to take two Democratic terms to clean up Trump's mess just like it took two terms of Obama to clean up the Bush/Cheney disaster. Meanwhile, we will all be eight years older by the time the economy finally comes back.
The 01 was a Clinton recession that started late in 2000 to be fair.
As of today, 64% of Independents (voters) disapprove of Trump. I would say that is some indication that the needle moves....
It's better to measure things over time....which this thread does...then to have 100's of threads declaring "the market has hit new highs"...some of which we had a month or two ago!
But even if you look at the first couple of pages you will see that the majority of posts seem to think Trump is clueless.....so whether more people now do is an open question.
His numbers have been negative since the week he took office. Far into the negative.
The only constant is that the same 40%, which probably consists of the 30% who still thought GWB was fine at the end of his term...plus some additional deplorables and those who like Reality TV....seems to stay within 3 points (40-43%).
Oh hey...
I follow the news and I get what you're saying about that. No doubt we can all follow those developments easy enough.
What all is getting accomplished in this thread is another matter however. I'd be curious if the "needle has moved" for anyone commenting in this thread as a result of any comment(s) they read in this thread in any case. Doesn't seem like it given the usual characters essentially repeating the same sorts of things without making a dent in the mind of a Trump supporter or vice versa.
Not that this thread is any different from any other along these lines, except that it does seem to go on longer than most, while others get closed or die a natural death. Why this one lives on, I don't know, but that's become more of interest to me at this point. Can't be anyone thinking they are actually making a dent of a difference. Can it?
I follow the news and I get what you're saying about that. No doubt we can all follow those developments easy enough.
What all is getting accomplished in this thread is another matter however. I'd be curious if the "needle has moved" for anyone commenting in this thread as a result of any comment(s) they read in this thread in any case. Doesn't seem like it given the usual characters essentially repeating the same sorts of things without making a dent in the mind of a Trump supporter or vice versa.
Not that this thread is any different from any other along these lines, except that it does seem to go on longer than most, while others get closed or die a natural death. Why this one lives on, I don't know, but that's become more of interest to me at this point. Can't be anyone thinking they are actually making a dent of a difference. Can it?
I don't think anyone on this message board has changed their mind about supporting Trump or not supporting him... I'd like to see someone who voted for Trump tell us they are not in 2020..
Thats not how math works. A 1% gain every month for 12 or 20 months is not just a 12% or 20% gain.
You are correct - it is more due to compounding. But if we want to "round off" and assume the market will be similar at the end of 2019, we'd have two years of 12% gains each.
Which would make 30 trillion (or 30 of anything) into 37,632....
Meaning the actual "unrealized" gains are over 7.5 Trillion.
Again, if you weren't so uninformed/misinformed, you would know what he actually said.
So if you actually heard what President Trump said, you would know without any doubt that President Trump never said white nationalists were fine people. In fact, he couldn't have made it clearer that he was completely condemning the white nationalists.
If you don't believe me, watch the press conference for yourself.
What did he say about shooting someone on the street in NYC? You seem up on the exact quotes....what did he say about paying for lawyers if his "base" got rough with someone?
Interesting....that we have thousands of lies and misstatement from Individual One and yet you seem to always know he means well. You probably have 12K exact excuses......
"Trump's total of untruths hit 12,019 on Aug. 5"
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