Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
if a man allows a commercial to make him feel less manly, than he probably is a soy-boy pajama boy with a manbun on his head.
Thats great, but do your words apply to all other groups? It seems to me that every group is offended by something real or imagined.
For example if P&G had a commercial that showed a woman washing clothes barefoot and pregnant and then saying "Thank god I have a good man that has a good job. We can afford Tide laundry detergent." You know that feminists would be POed. Ok just make it a woman in the kitchen doing dishes. She says "I love dawn dish washing detergent it makes my job so much easier." Yeah that would fly like a lead ballon as well.
Disparaging sensitivity, thin-skin, and weakness is precisely a big part of toxic masculinity. Not only is it saying that mainstream/traditional "human nature" judgments are pretty much A-OK the way they are and therefore don't need to change; it implies that cruelty and callouseness is less unacceptable than traits that certainly don't signify deliberate efforts to hurt or demean others. It also reduces any other positive trait a person can have to a boring but important trait for "real men" at best, an outright consolation prize for "losers" at worst. Also, men are supposed to simply be themselves to the extent that they don't set out to deliberately hurt or demean others. That's all.
BTW, your bashing of "wimpy" people is frankly a form of bigotry, for you're demeaning them not because the person you bash consciously and deliberately set out to hurt or degrade others but simply (the only proper role of scorn), but simply because you have a kneejerk distaste toward weakness. Sorry, but being weak in and of itself is not a setting out to hurt or degrade others. Furthermore, even if it is theoretically possible to overcome, some people simply have more or less ability to overcome it than others. That makes your attitude frankly ableist, even if the trait is correctable in principle. It's like making fun of a person who got severely assaulted and can't walk for the next few months as a result.
You're just reading "single mom" into that scene, all without a shred of proof the woman in that video actually portrayed a single mom. For all you know, she could have been a stay-at-home mom while her husband's a brain surgeon or partner in the biggest law firm in the state. All this is irrelevant, for the point here is that her son is in agony over bullying and needs emotional comfort. Isn't that what all good mothers do anyway?
Aside from the backyard BBQ scene, I saw a pretty diverse group of men, even seeing a few scenes featuring black men. No sale.
Being a strong man does not mean a man is cruel or abusive. Nice strawman!
Strength is an important trait to make it life. I was bullied as a child and my dad taught me how to handle bullies. He actually told me how to act and how to stop the abusers and it worked. And I taught my son how to handle these type of boys at school.
What is the meaning of toxic masculinity? Why not call it aberrant behavior? Would it be Ok to describe bad behavior by women toxic femininity? This is nothing but BS form the extreme feminists. Mosty women want a strong man, that is how we evolved.
I think feminists make some valid points when they talk about Toxic Masculinity. Some of it is garbage of course... just womanly nagging scaled up to a political movement. But some of it is entirely valid.
But they've intentionally structured and named their social criticism so that it *won't* be accepted by most men. Because this isn't about making social changes, or getting their ideas accepted by anybody but their own SJW tribe.
Seems to me the people most upset about the ad are the very one's who need to learn the lessons the ad presents.
Seems to me those who aren’t upset, don’t realize Gillette has no plans on social equality by making commercials about toxic femininity and charge women the same for blades as they do men. Hypocrisy at its finest.
I've known quite a few guys- particularly when I was younger- whose only goal in life was to **** women. Get them drunk. Lie to them. Pressure them. Whatever it takes... the *only* point was to stick their thingy into her thingy. Sometimes even bordering on rapey behavior. Didn't matter how low they had to stoop to do so... and then talking **** about said female to their friends afterwards.
Even when I was young, I always thought that was a really ****ty way to behave toward your fellow humans who happen to have vaginas. Not claiming to be a saint... but I've never deceived nor pressured a woman for sex.
Oh, and casually referring to women you know nothing about as "that ****" or **** like that? Yeah, that's ****ty behavior. And I have no problem with feminists raising hell over it.
Sorry that threatens your fragile masculinity.
Would you like more examples? I can probably think of a few.
Status:
"Moldy Tater Gangrene, even before Moscow Marge."
(set 18 days ago)
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,610,169 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil75230
Disparaging sensitivity, thin-skin, and weakness is precisely a big part of toxic masculinity. Not only is it saying that mainstream/traditional "human nature" judgments are pretty much A-OK the way they are and therefore don't need to change; it implies that cruelty and callouseness is less unacceptable than traits that certainly don't signify deliberate efforts to hurt or demean others. It also reduces any other positive trait a person can have to a boring but important trait for "real men" at best, an outright consolation prize for "losers" at worst. Also, men are supposed to simply be themselves to the extent that they don't set out to deliberately hurt or demean others. That's all.
BTW, your bashing of "wimpy" people is frankly a form of bigotry, for you're demeaning them not because the person you bash consciously and deliberately set out to hurt or degrade others but simply (the only proper role of scorn), but simply because you have a kneejerk distaste toward weakness. Sorry, but being weak in and of itself is not a setting out to hurt or degrade others. Furthermore, even if it is theoretically possible to overcome, some people simply have more or less ability to overcome it than others. That makes your attitude frankly ableist, even if the trait is correctable in principle. It's like making fun of a person who got severely assaulted and can't walk for the next few months as a result.
You're just reading "single mom" into that scene, all without a shred of proof the woman in that video actually portrayed a single mom. For all you know, she could have been a stay-at-home mom while her husband's a brain surgeon or partner in the biggest law firm in the state. All this is irrelevant, for the point here is that her son is in agony over bullying and needs emotional comfort. Isn't that what all good mothers do anyway?
Aside from the backyard BBQ scene, I saw a pretty diverse group of men, even seeing a few scenes featuring black men. No sale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
Being a strong man does not mean a man is cruel or abusive. Nice strawman!
No straw man here, because I never said strength in and of itself means being cruel and abusive - of course it doesn't mean that. Surely Gillette and its ad agency knows that much too. Surely they gave men credit for being able to see that much. The point is that toxic behavior is passed off a huge amount of the time as manly, regardless of whether you or I or anyone else agrees with it. Certainly it's rebuked less sharply than being the target of the abuse, especially a male target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
Strength is an important trait to make it life. I was bullied as a child and my dad taught me how to handle bullies. He actually told me how to act and how to stop the abusers and it worked. And I taught my son how to handle these type of boys at school.
Nice, but beside the point. The point is that men have to challenge toxic, bullying, misogynist behavior in other men instead of just handwaving it away as "males being males" - and certainly start scorning that kind of behavior and stop scorning weakness, sensitivity, etc. - especially in males.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
What is the meaning of toxic masculinity? Why not call it aberrant behavior? Would it be Ok to describe bad behavior by women toxic femininity? This is nothing but BS form the extreme feminists.
Toxic masculinity is when men use traits usually associated with "masculinity" (strength, street smarts, thick-skin, courage, vigor, self-reliance) to disparage and demean others outside the role of self-defense - whether for just cheap social dominance points or to gain something at the expense of another person's essential well-being (physical or psychological).
The point is that this kind of behavior is at least dismissed as "the normal, natural way of doing things" and even worse is easily confused as leadership - especially in boys and the more immature of younger men; and it's victim-blaming besides because you're holding a target responsible for matters he (or she) is unable to handle on their own. It's as if personal strength and forcefulness is the ultimate measure of a person's very worth as a person, regardless of whether the target started a bad act or expression against others. A lot of men out there simply swallowed this kind of notion and it's causing a lot of problems for both men and women - the former because they are socially pressured to meet probably unrealistic expectation of what a respect-worthy person is; the latter because it insists that if a woman outperforms you in high-prestige, high-pecking order positions then the man's simply a chump.
That said, how about you defining toxic femininity for me? I gave you my definition of TM, how about your definition of TF? For the record, all toxic behaviors should be challenged. That still doesn't change the fact that bullying, misogyny, and such are often associated with society's warped, distorted idea of what a "real man" is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
Mosty women want a strong man, that is how we evolved.
This is not about sex appeal. It's as much about castigating "unmanly" men as worthy of open humiliation as much as it is about misogyny. In fact, a lot of this "trying to be a man" is actually about men seeking to escape cultural/clique disparagement merely due to their lack of "manliness". This applies every bit as much to asexual men as any other.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
