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Old 01-21-2019, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,269,029 times
Reputation: 19952

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Obviously I understand that given the makeup of Congress, compromise is necessary to stop the impasse but I'll honestly say that as a Trump supporter and the son of LEGAL immigrants, Trump has already compromised significantly more than the Democrats. As a voter here is what I actually believe: If someone is illegal, they don't deserve anything. I think DACA should be rescinded and they should have NO path to citizenship and that they should just be happy we're not able to deport them all. Illegal aliens in my opinion are NOT entitled to in-state college tuition or shouldn't even have the right to education or health care at all in the United States. I also believe in an Israeli-style concrete barrier going at least 20 feet underground to prevent tunnels and with sensors and drones flying across the border at all times. I also believe birthright citizenship should be modified where at least one parent has to be in the U.S. legally. I would also be okay with the use of snipers and drone strikes against Mexican drug cartels and traffickers along the border. So yes what Trump has done is compromise MUCH more than the Democrats have. Given that I now recognize the need for compromise given the makeup of Congress, I can LIVE WITH (not necessarily like) DACA recipients being given permanent residency but not citizenship, and their illegal parents should have zero respite. No illegal alien who came over the age of 18 should get any kind of amnesty. This in exchange for the wall. Either all this or the complete and permanent defunding of Planned Parenthood and the permanent repeal of Obamacare in exchange for no wall and continued DACA. The Democrats haven't compromise a single bit. This is why I believe Trump must keep the government closed until the Democrats back down. If Trump re-opens the government now we get nothing and the Democrats get everything they want- no wall, plus amnesty for DACA and other illegals.
As a voter, here is what I think. Trump has not compromised one iota.

Trump took things away and now is offering to give a couple of them back--this is not compromise--this would be getting back to square one.

Now Trump starts a crisis--yes--this is of Trump's own making, and he wants to play big man saving the day, i.e., putting out yet another fire he started. He should resign--he's a disgraceful immature man sitting in the WH tweeting out childish nasty comments. The only authentic thing about him is his ignorance.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:48 AM
 
62,973 posts, read 29,162,429 times
Reputation: 18594
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Of course it's a problem, but the wall idea is still moronic.

Vast (really guys... the VAST) majority of illegals are here due to overstaying visas. It's a small proportion that walk across the border.

So yes, a wall is a waste of money. Combined with the above statistic and the fact border crossings have been declining for a decade.

Oh for God's sake! I have posted several links proving that the good walls do work including those from the Border Patrol and Homeland Security but you know better than them? No, the vast majority of illegals are not here due to overstaying their visas and that has nothing to do with building a wall to stop the border jumpers anyway!! There are still thousands jumping our border ever month. Are we to just ignore them? That's no small proportion for Christ's sake! Even if it were declining as I said, there are still thousands jumping our border every month. You guys need to get some new lines as your old ones are false and have proven to be over and over again.


Did you tell congress back in 2006 when the actual wall bill was passed that it was a waste of money? Thought not, hypocrite!
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:50 AM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,461,898 times
Reputation: 13233
Speaking as a Trump voter, he's already compromised A LOT

Trump is a slight of hand artist who plays a zero-sum game. He doesn't consider it a win unless his opponent has clearly lost, and we see that here. His offerings for a so-called 'compromise' are really nothing ... smoke and mirrors in true Trump style. He knows the courts have blocked his ending of DACA, so what he offers (a temporary reprieve from deportation for those young people) is nothing but a symbolic gesture.

The man is not a wheeler-dealer (as he likes to portray himself), far from it, he is just a pickpocket.

Personally, I think the multi-billion dollar price tag (easily over 20 billion when complete, possibly much more) for a generally ineffective edifice is a waste of money and too high a price to pay for a little common decency in the handling of these unfortunate people who are Americans in everything but name.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:52 AM
 
62,973 posts, read 29,162,429 times
Reputation: 18594
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
I'm repeating what Trump said time and time again, same with his voter base. Where are all those people that gobbled up that line? Oh yeah, they're mum on that detail. Mexico is not paying for the wall like Trump said they would. The renegotiated NAFTA did not include that.

And it's already been addressed so why do you keep repeating that same old line? Just like hearing yourself talk?


I ask again, were you just as concerned when congress passed the actual wall bill back in 2006 and it was to be soley funded by the taxpayer? Crickets........
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:52 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,682,105 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Oh for God's sake!

Did you tell congress back in 2006 when the actual wall bill was passed that it was a waste of money? Thought not, hypocrite!
Actually, I largely considered the entire terms of GWB to be a constitutional crisis as he was not elected but rather selected and his Republican Congress was responsible for most of the policies that sunk us.

Remember - the Great Recession? Remember - the Wars of Agression? 10's of trillions down the tubes.....but yet you think I was happy about what those crooks and no-goods did in 2006?

Amazing.

"Both chambers had a Republican majority, the same party as President Bush."
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,550,307 times
Reputation: 24780
So, tRump voters still think he's that world class dealmaker he told them he is.

tRump's shutdown is the move of a desperate man who has no way forward.

It'll fail and ultimately weaken him even more.

An unpopular president taking a highly unpopular action to try to force his wall that most Americans don't want and he promised Mexico would pay for.

What a deal maker.

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Old 01-21-2019, 07:57 AM
 
21,945 posts, read 9,513,063 times
Reputation: 19473
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruitr View Post
The problem is this:
1. The $5B is just a start for the wall. Trump will need another $10-15B to finish the wall. And then there's annual maintenance.
2. The Dreamer (DACA) immigrants are here to stay. No matter what. They have no where else to go.
3. Defunding Planned Parenthood is such a hollow threat. The Feds pay very little for this benefit with no money going to abortion.

Deal or No Deal? I'd advise the Democrats to walk. Trump promised a wall with Mexico paying for it. Get Mexico to pay for it and I'd be onboard.
LOL. Are you serious?
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,770,332 times
Reputation: 5277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"this orange terrorist"

We get more and more kids on here every day.

They CAN'T do a post without their juvenile name calling.

NOTHING of value!

You'd think we were on the playground.

A supporter of our Orange Troll In Chief want civility huh?

Ain't gonna happen buddy
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:03 AM
 
62,973 posts, read 29,162,429 times
Reputation: 18594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Speaking as a Trump voter, he's already compromised A LOT

Trump is a slight of hand artist who plays a zero-sum game. He doesn't consider it a win unless his opponent has clearly lost, and we see that here. His offerings for a so-called 'compromise' are really nothing ... smoke and mirrors in true Trump style. He knows the courts have blocked his ending of DACA, so what he offers (a temporary reprieve from deportation for those young people) is nothing but a symbolic gesture.

The man is not a wheeler-dealer (as he likes to portray himself), far from it, he is just a pickpocket.

Personally, I think the multi-billion dollar price tag (easily over 20 billion when complete, possibly much more) for a generally ineffective edifice is a waste of money and too high a price to pay for a little common decency in the handling of these unfortunate people who are Americans in everything but name.

Wait till DACA gets to the Supreme Court and then we'll see where that issue goes. The lower courts don't have a final say.


You "think"? No, you anti-wall people aren't thinking when you don't even bother to research the wall issue and how effective the good walls have been. You're either blinded by your hatred of Trump, hire illegals for profit, have ethnic ties to illegals or are bleeding heart liberals without a brain in your heads. That's doesn't equate to "thinking"! The facts speak for themselves of which you and yours choose to ignore.


I guess you don't mind the over $100 billion price tag of the costs of illegal aliens though? The wall is to deter foreigners from coming here illegally, they aren't Americans! WTH? The DACAs aren't Americans either that requires citizenship papers. If they and their parents were decent they'd leave our country and go back to their homelands where they belong and apply to come back legally like legal immigrants do. The process doesn't begin on our soil.
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:06 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
33,942 posts, read 22,537,022 times
Reputation: 25816
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Why *should* Democrats negotiate this orange terrorist?

Nobody can believe a word he says. Going back on agreements and/or not following through is his stock and trade.

If they give him *anything*, then it just ensures that he'll pull the same stunt next time Sean Hannity bullies him.
So true. Republicans are planning to pull the same trick for Planned Parenthood - holding the country hostage if they don't get their way.

Trump's hostage taking cannot be rewarded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Similar to what President Trump proposed - but giving permanent residency to the Dreamers (NOT their parents) in exchange for the border wall and the $5 in border security. This would be compromising within the border security and immigration issue.

If there is no border wall and full amnesty for illegals, then in exchange I would demand the complete defunding of Planned Parenthood or the permanent and complete repeal of Obamacare. This would be giving the left a large victory in something they're passionate about in exchange for us getting a large victory in something WE are passionate about. The only issue I can more about than illegal immigration is abortion.
Permanent status for the Dreamers is likely something that would attract Democratic votes. The rest of your 'demands' are a no go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellise View Post
You know, if Obama had built a wall, Trump would be tearing it down now.

The wall will likely take a decade to build, cost a lot more than it should, be climbed over, tunnelled under, and will need maintenance on one end before the other end is ever completed. Not to mention the seizing of land via eminent domain.

And then the next Democrat President will tear it down anyway.

So they all need to compromise on border security and immigration, to build barriers where appropriate, use E-verify and other 21st century solutions. We don't really need the Great Wall of Trump. It's an overly simplistic solution to a complex problem.
You are 100% correct. Trump would be tearing down any wall that Obama built. Trump's wall and Trump's shutdown are a political stunt and nothing more.
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