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Obviously I understand that given the makeup of Congress, compromise is necessary to stop the impasse but I'll honestly say that as a Trump supporter and the son of LEGAL immigrants, Trump has already compromised significantly more than the Democrats.
No, he hasn't compromised a lot. He didn't have to compromise for two years and didn't get his stupid wall. His need to compromise is just starting.
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Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70
As a voter here is what I actually believe:
If someone is illegal, they don't deserve anything. I think DACA should be rescinded and they should have NO path to citizenship and that they should just be happy we're not able to deport them all. Illegal aliens in my opinion are NOT entitled to in-state college tuition or shouldn't even have the right to education or health care at all in the United States. I also believe in an Israeli-style concrete barrier going at least 20 feet underground to prevent tunnels and with sensors and drones flying across the border at all times. I also believe birthright citizenship should be modified where at least one parent has to be in the U.S. legally.
I would also be okay with the use of snipers and drone strikes against Mexican drug cartels and traffickers along the border.
Irrelevant. We're not talking about you per your own op.
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Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70
So yes what Trump has done is compromise MUCH more than the Democrats have. Given that I now recognize the need for compromise given the makeup of Congress, I can LIVE WITH (not necessarily like) DACA recipients being given permanent residency but not citizenship, and their illegal parents should have zero respite. No illegal alien who came over the age of 18 should get any kind of amnesty. This in exchange for the wall. Either all this or the complete and permanent defunding of Planned Parenthood and the permanent repeal of Obamacare in exchange for no wall and continued DACA.
The Democrats haven't compromise a single bit. This is why I believe Trump must keep the government closed until the Democrats back down. If Trump re-opens the government now we get nothing and the Democrats get everything they want- no wall, plus amnesty for DACA and other illegals.
You apparently don't know what compromise is either. You're dictating terms. This or that happens, that's it. See, thing is with compromise, you don't get to dictate terms for the other side. The other side picks their terms, and you either find it acceptable, or the impasse continues.
Democrats aren't caving on this impasse. The moron said on tv he'd take the blame for the shutdown and that's landed perfectly on his lap because of that. The democrats in the room of this televised meeting even told him this shouldn't be fore tv, but he just had to go majorly put foot in mouth.
The problem is this:
1. The $5B is just a start for the wall. Trump will need another $10-15B to finish the wall. And then there's annual maintenance.
2. The Dreamer (DACA) immigrants are here to stay. No matter what. They have no where else to go.
3. Defunding Planned Parenthood is such a hollow threat. The Feds pay very little for this benefit with no money going to abortion.
Deal or No Deal? I'd advise the Democrats to walk. Trump promised a wall with Mexico paying for it. Get Mexico to pay for it and I'd be onboard.
1. True, but would the annual maintenance on the wall cost as much as the over $100 billion a year that illegal aliens cost us? I don't think so!
2. Merely your opinion and yes they have somewhere else to go. They can go back to their homelands with their law breaking parents. That way we don't have to hear the crying of the separation of families thingy.
3. If Planned Parenthood includes abortion yes defund them.
Oh stop with this crap about Mexico paying for the wall. Trump never said they'd write a check for and I have posted Trump's plan as to how they can pay for it otherwise. Funny how you and yours weren't concerned it when back in 2006 when the actual wall bill passed and it was to be the taxpayer to fully fund it. Are you another one who failed math since a $25 billion wall is a hell of a lot cheaper than what illegal aliens cost us annually?
You know, if Obama had built a wall, Trump would be tearing it down now.
The wall will likely take a decade to build, cost a lot more than it should, be climbed over, tunnelled under, and will need maintenance on one end before the other end is ever completed. Not to mention the seizing of land via eminent domain.
And then the next Democrat President will tear it down anyway.
So they all need to compromise on border security and immigration, to build barriers where appropriate, use E-verify and other 21st century solutions. We don't really need the Great Wall of Trump. It's an overly simplistic solution to a complex problem.
"The wall will likely take a decade to build"
How many walls have YOU built to make such a claim?
"cost a lot more than it should,"
The CURRENT "cost" is a LOT higher!
" be climbed over, tunneled under,"
Maybe we should tear down the current effective walls.
NOTHING is 100%. We have current speed limit laws and people break them every day. Should we eliminate them?
"will need maintenance"
What maintenance?
Do you do any driving? Do you see the walls around the Interstate highways, etc for sound barriers?
CONCRETE DOESN'T NEED maintenance.
"Not to mention the seizing of land via eminent domain."
It's done every day to tear down old buildings and build new roads in cities, etc.
See, thing is with compromise, you don't get to dictate terms for the other side. The other side picks their terms, and you either find it acceptable, or the impasse continues.
.
Actually, in compromise, neither side gets all they want.
But I am enjoying this shutdown. It demonstrates much of govt is unnecessary, all the time.
One thing that gets me is his recent televised address.
First, he calls a meeting at the White House and walks out on it. Instead of calling another meeting where meaningful dialog can be exchanged, he tries to set up a deal via a television spot where there is no negotiation, only 'his deal' is presented. His only hope was to try and get public sympathy. Thing is, the public has been seeing through his sham for some time now. Finally, he tries to come off a calm, concerned and compassionate. A man whose entire life has been belligerent, antagonistic and spiteful is now suddenly concerned about the welfare of immigrants. Yeah, right.
In essence, he seems to be pleading for his life as it were. He has no where else to go except to beg.
You make it sound personal and more about personality.
The obligation of congress is not to let the personal or personality side track them. Their obligation is to do what is in the interest of the country and both sides agree that immigration is and has been a long standing unsolved problem. The reasonable will do their duty and put the pettiness aside, reach for solutions, and move forward. That means taking a place at the table and negotiating until an agreement is reached and signed into law.
You make it sound personal and more about personality.
The obligation of congress is not to let the personal or personality side track them. Their obligation is to do what is in the interest of the country and both sides agree that immigration is and has been a long standing unsolved problem. The reasonable will do their duty and put the pettiness aside, reach for solutions, and move forward. That means taking a place at the table and negotiating until an agreement is reached and signed into law.
Of course it's a problem, but the wall idea is still moronic.
Vast (really guys... the VAST) majority of illegals are here due to overstaying visas. It's a small proportion that walk across the border.
So yes, a wall is a waste of money. Combined with the above statistic and the fact border crossings have been declining for a decade.
1. True, but would the annual maintenance on the wall cost as much as the over $100 billion a year that illegal aliens cost us? I don't think so!
2. Merely your opinion and yes they have somewhere else to go. They can go back to their homelands with their law breaking parents. That way we don't have to hear the crying of the separation of families thingy.
3. If Planned Parenthood includes abortion yes defund them.
Oh stop with this crap about Mexico paying for the wall. Trump never said they'd write a check for and I have posted Trump's plan as to how they can pay for it otherwise. Funny how you and yours weren't concerned it when back in 2006 when the actual wall bill passed and it was to be the taxpayer to fully fund it. Are you another one who failed math since a $25 billion wall is a hell of a lot cheaper than what illegal aliens cost us annually?
Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall. Why aren't they? He never said he'd shutdown the government and make the American taxpayers pay for it during his campaign, gee I wonder why?
No, he hasn't compromised a lot. He didn't have to compromise for two years and didn't get his stupid wall. His need to compromise is just starting.
Irrelevant. We're not talking about you per your own op.
You apparently don't know what compromise is either. You're dictating terms. This or that happens, that's it. See, thing is with compromise, you don't get to dictate terms for the other side. The other side picks their terms, and you either find it acceptable, or the impasse continues.
Democrats aren't caving on this impasse. The moron said on tv he'd take the blame for the shutdown and that's landed perfectly on his lap because of that. The democrats in the room of this televised meeting even told him this shouldn't be fore tv, but he just had to go majorly put foot in mouth.
So one side making an offer is now dictating terms? WTH? All the other side has to do is make a counter offer or is that dictating terms to you also? His stupid wall? For the umpteenth time this is the wall that congress passed back in 2006 not Trump's wall.
Moron? Just more uncivil remarks by your side. Sure it was Trump that shut down the government but it's the Democrats that are keeping it that way as they are the ones who don't want to compromise. Schumer and Pelosi both said NO Wall. Is that what you call compromise? They wanted DACA and now Trump has offered to compromise on that. What does Trump get?
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Are you another one who failed math since a $25 billion wall is a hell of a lot cheaper than what illegal aliens cost us annually?
