Best Economy EVER -- 40% can't pay the bills (health care system, national debt, doctor)
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Not going to work for my kids anyway, where such a home anywhere striking distance of their work costs more like $2 or $3 million. Minimum!
Then this is an opportunity for them to expand their horizons and do something they've never done before: apply common sense.
They can relocate, or improve their financial situation. Their choice.
Around here, the average sale price is $129,000. If you're not paying that, it only proves that Cost-of-Living varies wildly around the US not to mention it proves that so-called "national averages" are totally useless and meaningless.
In any event, I'm not morally or ethically obligated to subsidize their Life-Style, and if they're not motivated to make changes in their lives, then subsidizing their Life-Style will not motivate them, either.
I already subsidize people. It's called State Educational Grant and Pell Grant and there's another animal called Guaranteed Student Loan, but not every needs one of those. They certainly want one, but wanting is not the same as needing.
Opportunities are overly abundant in the US, but people have to want to take advantage of those opportunities, and they simply have no interest. Even if people are not aware of the abundant opportunities, they can always ask, but asking is just too much work for them. They'd have to stop texting and sexting for a few minutes to use the cell-phone to call someone.
You also make the mistake of assuming just because I lean toward giving people the benefit of the doubt, "innocent until proven guilty," that I don't well understand and recognize the many people who are more deserving of their misfortune than others. I lean all the more in the direction I do, however, every time conservatives insist on describing Americans (or people in general) who are not doing so well as simply "lazy." Deserving their sad lot in life. Homeless people too. It's that sort of false premise I "talk a lot about" if anything...
The rest you think makes you a conservative is probably mostly true. Sure seems to me that most conservatives who think this way have this common notion that if they did it, "anyone can." Either that's a very humble notion or quite the opposite. My further observation over time is that it's the opposite and more about ego than reality. Then too there are the numbers, the statistics that seem to well demonstrate the simple fact that getting ahead in life, to the point of higher levels of income and wealth, healthy family, good vacations, investments and eventual retirement with financial security is a rather rare accomplishment.
The numbers certainly don't seem to suggest that "anyone can do it, " or I think far more would. Unless we're somehow supposed to believe that people CHOOSE to live spoon-to-mouth with all the challenges of poverty rather than get ahead in life the way most everyone aspires one way or another. Even people with physical and mental disabilities, but people with disabilities are actually a small percentage of all the people who struggle at the bottom half of the American economic pyramid.
I don’t know whether it is either one, humble or egotistical. It is just what I believe to be a fact. Maybe it is humble, because I don’t think there is anything particularly innately special about me. I don’t have a photographic memory, and though I have never had my IQ tested, I don’t think I am a genius. I had to work very hard in school to get A’s. It didn't come natural to me. I believe the only difference between me and my former classmates who have not done as well is that I am willing to do whatever I have to do in order to succeed.
And I don’t think that the people who live “spoon-to-mouth” choose to live that way, but I do think that most of them choose NOT to not live that way. Anyone working at McDonalds could choose to be better than everyone else working there, and make their way to become a manager. I mean, the bar is not very high. Just show up earlier than you are supposed to, stay later than you are supposed to, and take pride in everything you do there, even if it is cleaning the floors or replacing the napkins. At that point they can start saving some money and eventually open their own little burger place or a food truck at the very least. They can expand from there. I think the vast majority, just go to work, hate being there, don’t take any pride in it, only go there because they have to, and it shows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
The reality of how and why people get ahead financially speaking is perhaps easier to recognize when we consider why someone might have an income of $10 million per year as compared to $100,000 per year. The person making $10 million is likely to make the exact same sort of argument. Worked hard -- day and night -- to make his millions (in one year). That anyone could do the same if they just worked hard and applied themselves in the same way...
Not sure your income, but if it's all about hard work and effort, why aren't you too making $10 million per year? That too a CHOICE on your part? Or maybe you somehow believe it's because you are just not willing to work that hard? No. I think climbing the economic ladder is certainly about working hard and maybe more importantly working smart, but it's just not smart to think that's all there is to why 3 Americans have more wealth than the bottom 50 percent of Americans. Nobody can work that much harder or smarter than everyone else. Let's get a clue already...
Actually, I do believe it is a CHOICE on my part. So maybe I am both humble and arrogant at the same time. I knew that by going into medicine, there would be a cap on my earnings. There are only so many hours in the day, and only so much I can get paid for each surgery, and that is my limiting factor. I did consider an MBA instead, where there would be no caps, and I have friends and relatives that went that route and they are earning far more than I am. But I recognize that they work very hard too. They work from early in the morning until 10PM on a regular basis. They wake up at 3AM to see how the Asian Markets are doing and then go back to sleep for 2 hours, only to get up and start their real day. Nobody is making millions of dollars at a 9 to 5 job. I made my choice because I decided to do what I wanted to do, knowing that I would make less, and I am happy that I did. You wont find me complaining about it, because in my mind, it was a conscious decision. Now my passive income is higher than my work salary, and if I ever find that I don’t love what I am doing, I can stop at any time.
You are absolutely right, it is rare. But it is not rare because it is not doable. It is rare because people choose not to do it.
The sentence of mine you bolded said “most people”. Most people have an IQ above 90. And yes, there will by physical limitations with certain physical professions. Most people can become computer programmers if that is what their passion is. If they eat, sleep, and crap computer programming 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, even someone with average intelligence will become proficient at the very least.
But most people wont do that. That is my idea of working hard. At 50 years old, I still work 24 hour shifts 8 days a month. And when they ask me if I can work the next day, I almost always say yes, turning my 24 hour shift into a 30 hour shift. And the days I’m not on call, are between 12 and 15 hours. So when people tell me they “Work hard and still cant get ahead.” The first thing I wonder, is what their idea of “working hard” is.
Not sure how to put this, but my idea of working hard and getting ahead is not having to do what you are doing, let alone at age 50...
I've known many a very hard working person over the course of my career, and some have fallen on very hard times. I've been fortunate in many ways during the course of my career, but I've known some pretty serious problems that if not for a fair bit of good luck, may have very well "sunk my boat," and I mean to the bottom!
At least you are lucky to still have a job, but careful. I used to help displaced professionals to regain employment later in life. Many if not all who worked very hard at good companies where they had no hint they would finally be shown the door before their time for no fault of their own. Though they enjoyed success all their life, suddenly they were finding the demand for anyone their age, significantly reduced -- as in none existent.
I helped all I could. Some managed to become re-employed, often with disappointing loss in status and earnings. Others simply went the way of accepting unemployment over time, and making do. Very unhappily and certainly not by choice...
At 25, if she's only making $8.85 an hour she has done something wrong. She's either failed to get a little better education at the Community College, done drugs or getting a late start in her working career.
There are many sides to stories.
The below has always been true. Even in the 50's, 70's and 90's. Many Americans would always hurt due to these factors.
I agree with you. My daughter , which I hate to say pretty much effed up the part of life that generally sets us up for the future is making $14 an hour at 24 years old, and she isn't all that much of a go getter. Sadly she has a lot of her slacker biological fathers genes.
Wish I could continue in this thread, but I think I wasted too much time in another, and now my wife is calling me off, so maybe I can get back to some of these other interesting comments tomorrow! Thanks!
Not sure how to put this, but my idea of working hard and getting ahead is not having to do what you are doing, let alone at age 50...
I've known many a very hard working person over the course of my career, and some have fallen on very hard times. I've been fortunate in many ways during the course of my career, but I've known some pretty serious problems that if not for a fair bit of good luck, may have very well "sunk my boat," and I mean to the bottom!
At least you are lucky to still have a job, but careful. I used to help displaced professionals to regain employment later in life. Many if not all who worked very hard at good companies where they had no hint they would finally be shown the door before their time for no fault of their own. Though they enjoyed success all their life, suddenly they were finding the demand for anyone their age, significantly reduced -- as in none existent.
I helped all I could. Some managed to become re-employed, often with disappointing loss in status and earnings. Others simply went the way of accepting unemployment over time, and making do. Very unhappily and certainly not by choice...
I don’t have to either. I choose to. Isn’t that the whole point of what we are talking about?
That is why it is so important to pick a career that you love. You cant love to work if you don’t love the work you are doing.
There is a severe shortage of Anesthesiologists. There has been for 20 years, and it keeps getting worse. Anesthesia groups are desperately hiring at every hospital in the entire NYC area. And the offers keep getting higher. I’m not worried about job security. Besides, even if I was worried about it, I am in a position to retire.
Last edited by AnesthesiaMD; 07-11-2019 at 12:50 PM..
It's really an embarrassing time to be an American. A disappointing time. I just heard the idiot talking about how good the stock market is - he doesn't realize that the stock market isn't a measure of the general well-being of the economy. Most Americans don't even participate in speculating in the stock market.
Debt is trillions and growing. Thought conservatives wanted to draw down the debt but they're just adding to it.
Not sure where you are at but things here in MI are doing really well.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/b...force-shortage
"Nearly 93 percent of manufacturers are projecting further expansion for their businesses, and positive sentiment among smaller companies is up to 91.3 percent, according to a quarterly survey from the National Association of Manufacturers. It's one of the best outlooks the group has seen in the 20 years it has conducted the survey among its 14,000 members. "
The trade Bull**** is definitely causing a disruption though. Hopefully we can get through all this. Although there was still some growth.
"Of the 18 manufacturing industries, 12 reported growth in June, in the following order: Furniture & Related Products; Printing & Related Support Activities; Textile Mills; Nonmetallic Mineral Products; Food, Beverage & Tobacco Products; Petroleum & Coal Products; Chemical Products; Computer & Electronic Products; Paper Products; Miscellaneous Manufacturing; Electrical Equipment, Appliances & Components; and Machinery. "
You didn't read the article or my quote. You will learn more if you do, such as that the words say she makes a little over $10 an hour, a very normal wages for many in health care aide.
Of course, it would not matter a lick if she made $11. Still could not afford to get to work and back,
No education, 3 kids, no father, all at the age of 25 ? Sorry she made some really bad decisions in her life. Her fault, not anyone elses.
Yes, you also made some fair points, although I definitely did not mean to imply, and I certainly do NOT believe, that all people --or even most people -- who are unemployed, underemployed, or struggling financially are in that circumstance because they don't like to follow rules or "conform". My husband has often had periods of unemployment, and he is as conventional in both appearance and manner as one could imagine with short hair, Oxford shirts, pressed slacks, and "old-fashioned" manners. (He is an electrical designer, and his last fairly long-term period of unemployment ended just last year; however, he was fortunate because although he was in his early 60's, his skills and experience meant that he could -- and did -- find another position that paid as well as his previous one.)
My main point was simply that some people are in a bad position because they won't 'kowtow' at all. In some cases, that might be out of ignorance, as it is entirely possible that some people just have never learned what many people would consider the "basics" of job interviewing (to be neat, polite, respectful, etc.) -- but there are some people who do know the basics but refuse to follow them. I don't want to guess at any of those reasons, but based on some of the posts in the Work and Employment forum, I certainly have some opinions about that, and they are not flattering ones because most of what I gather from reading such posts is defiance and pride at not "sucking up". (Again, I am not saying that is true for the majority of people, and I actually suspect that it is actually just a small minority.)
Oh, and I was also not referring to people with artistic or athletic talents or extremely high IQ's. I know that many gifted people do not have to kowtow to any corporate interviewer to have their worth acknowledged and be paid well IF they are truly exceptional. However, the simple fact is that most people are not gifted artistically or athletically, and my opinion is that some people might do better in life if they recognize that fact.
And, yes, I also agree that genetics and the circumstances of one's parents also play a very large part on how successful one is. I would certainly never suggest that someone who was born to high school drop-outs and grew up in a very poor and possibly violent environment has even close to the same chance of success as someone born to educated and wealthy parents; and I agree with most people that someone who is obese, hearing impaired, and has below average intelligence has a much less chance of success than someone who is physically fit, very intelligent, and has no disabilities. However, there have been many, many people with severe disadvantages who have far outshown many other people with no disadvantages at all (except possibly a lack of ambition and an inclination toward laziness).
But all that being said, there are still some things that people do have some control over in most cases -- and that is doing the three things described earlier that will give a MUCH better chance of someone not ending up poor -- graduating from high school, delaying becoming parents, and getting and keeping a full-time job. But at the risk of being redundant, in order to get a full-time job, it is usually necessary to "kow-tow" to a least some degree and follow the rules described above; and I have no respect for people who act like they are 'above' doing that. Such thinking just makes me shake my head.
Again, I'm not sure how else to put it, but "doing the three things described earlier" is also much a matter that lots of Americans don't have the control over that you and others seem inclined to take more for granted. For many, just getting through high school for starters is a challenge in many ways that most of us don't really appreciate much. Also the challenge of getting through high school without getting pregnant. Though that seems to most of us like something we have control over, for many young women in challenging circumstances and/or bad environments, even keeping from getting pregnant is a challenge lots of kids don't face like they do.
Of course, sex has taken control of people in ways not always so ideal for an awful long time now. Yet...
Then this is an opportunity for them to expand their horizons and do something they've never done before: apply common sense.
They can relocate, or improve their financial situation. Their choice.
Around here, the average sale price is $129,000. If you're not paying that, it only proves that Cost-of-Living varies wildly around the US not to mention it proves that so-called "national averages" are totally useless and meaningless.
In any event, I'm not morally or ethically obligated to subsidize their Life-Style, and if they're not motivated to make changes in their lives, then subsidizing their Life-Style will not motivate them, either.
I already subsidize people. It's called State Educational Grant and Pell Grant and there's another animal called Guaranteed Student Loan, but not every needs one of those. They certainly want one, but wanting is not the same as needing.
Opportunities are overly abundant in the US, but people have to want to take advantage of those opportunities, and they simply have no interest. Even if people are not aware of the abundant opportunities, they can always ask, but asking is just too much work for them. They'd have to stop texting and sexting for a few minutes to use the cell-phone to call someone.
Common sense?
I think common sense should have you understanding that these choices are a little more complex than you seem able to consider and not always so either/or...
Are you somehow under the impression that all these young professionals working in a city like San Francisco lack common sense? For some anyway, walking away from so much that draws people to the area, not to mention the job opportunities and incomes, is not a simply a matter of "common sense" or just moving to Arkansas. Life for some anyway, is certainly about more than living in a place where homes on an acre sell for $129K. Not that such a place isn't just fine for some, but not everyone and not everyone is badly served by making more money in higher cost of living areas even if they have to rent for a long time or maybe even forever. Lots of people prefer not to be "house poor" too.
All to say, there is always more to consider when one bothers to understand how so many different options can work for better or worse depending on a variety of factors and what sort of people/life we're talking about.
The subject of how we all share in the cost of educating our next generation is another perhaps a little to "involved" than we're able to consider intelligently here. I'm not optimistic about that possibility right now for a couple reasons...
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