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Trump didn't care about corruption last year when he released the aid to Ukraine. Why was this year different? It's because he wanted dirt on his political opponent. You can't do that as president. Doesn't matter to you or others though. And if the Dems lose, they lose. They at least did the right thing in uncovering Trump's abuse of power and corruption. Not that it matters to the GOP or Trump supporters.
What was different is a new Ukrainian president was elected - a man known for being strong against corruption, in a historically corrupt country. I think what Trump did was unseemly, but NOT illegal. Not one witness had first-hand knowledge of an unlawful act. If there was a QPQ, it was well-hidden. Folks may SUSPECT, and draw an assumption, that there was a QPQ, but we don't impeach in this country based on assumptions and rumors. The Dems have been very effective at blurring the line between proven fact and unproven rumor, and a lot of folks have bought into that. Asking for a favor is not proof of a QPQ or bribery. I don't think it looks good, and I think it's unprofessional, but that's a far cry from being illegal.
For the record, I don't hate liberals/Democrats. I agree with and support some liberal policies. I do not care for the Communists who try to disguise themselves as progressives/Democratic Socialists, however.
There are PLENTY of Democrats and Republicans who ARE good Americans. It's just unfortunate that some are stupid enough to let politicians play one group off of the other, creating divisiveness for their own self-serving and nefarious reasons.
Trump didn't care about corruption last year when he released the aid to Ukraine. Why was this year different? It's because he wanted dirt on his political opponent. You can't do that as president. Doesn't matter to you or others though. And if the Dems lose, they lose. They at least did the right thing in uncovering Trump's abuse of power and corruption. Not that it matters to the GOP or Trump supporters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios
Since the accusations against the Bidens has been debunked, he can look to be sued for libel in the future. Good.
But Trump is guilty of trying to get a foreign government to persecute a US citizen, that is always wrong. Regardless of who the person is, it is always wrong for the president to turn on one of his own.
I wouldn't want him to do it to me and you wouldn't want him to do it to you. That's not what we hired him for.
Beyond that, Trump is guilty of trying to get a foreign government to persecute a US citizen on no evidence whatsoever, he is actually demanding the foreign government find some evidence!
If the thing was legitimate the US government would be sending evidence, not asking for evidence.
What is particularly troubling is how Trump has embraced a separate and distinct false narrative which has been traced back to Ukraine's rival, Russia. That's right, Trump believes a phony story concocted by the FSB to discredit it's rival and put distance between our nations. Putin is doing everything he can to destabilize Ukraine and isolate it from any potential friendly allies. Trump is playing along, wittingly or not, who can say?
But the biggest offense is that Trump was trying to influence the election by concocting a false narrative he could play up at his rallies, namely that there would be an investigation on 'the Bidens'. It didn't have to be a real investigation, all that is important is that the electorate THINK it is a real investigation, so it had to be publicly announced, so Trump could use it to hammer an opponent in public.
So Trump was faking a scandal to use in an election, and he was dragging a foreign country into it as his prop. This is not the first time Trump would be taking advantage of foreign help in an election, it is part of a pattern. The man is irredeemable.
"Perception is more important than reality. If someone perceives something to be true, it is more important than if it is in fact true. ... don't go out of your way to correct a false assumption if it plays to your advantage.”
Ivanka "I learned my moral compass from Daddy" Trump
Biden withheld aid to the Ukraine, until he leveraged the government to fire the prosecutor who was investigating Burisma - in effect, investigating the governing body of Burisma, the BoD, of which HIS SON was an officer of the board - in effect, investigating HIS SON and his cronies on the board! And he bragged about doing so on national TV! You don't have a problem with this??? That is the definition of a very clear conflict of interest AND a QPQ! In fact, Biden recently whined about how his staff ”failed” him by not telling him it was a conflict of interest! What, is he ten years old or something??
Democrat Logic 102 - for the sake of democracy, this upcoming election is too important to be left up to the voters.
Not logical. Trump surviving impeachment may convince him that he needs to cut back on the insanity of Trump being Trump. Something Democrats don't need for the 2020 election.
What was different is a new Ukrainian president was elected - a man known for being strong against corruption, in a historically corrupt country. I think what Trump did was unseemly, but NOT illegal. Not one witness had first-hand knowledge of an unlawful act. If there was a QPQ, it was well-hidden. Folks may SUSPECT, and draw an assumption, that there was a QPQ, but we don't impeach in this country based on assumptions and rumors. The Dems have been very effective at blurring the line between proven fact and unproven rumor, and a lot of folks have bought into that. Asking for a favor is not proof of a QPQ or bribery. I don't think it looks good, and I think it's unprofessional, but that's a far cry from being illegal.
For the record, I don't hate liberals/Democrats. I agree with and support some liberal policies. I do not care for the Communists who try to disguise themselves as progressives/Democratic Socialists, however.
There are PLENTY of Democrats and Republicans who ARE good Americans. It's just unfortunate that some are stupid enough to let politicians play one group off of the other, creating divisiveness for their own self-serving and nefarious reasons.
Quid pro Quo isn't necessary to be a 'high crime and misdemeanor". Impeachment is a POLITICAL remedy - not necessarily a legal one.
Simply ASKING a foreign government to announce a bogus investigation into your political rival is enough, IMO for abuse of power.
Impeaching Clinton for lying about his sex life seems far more of a waste than someone trying to fiddle with our 2020 election.
Behind most of it is just "I don't care about his abuse of power because I REALLY REALLY HATE LIBERALS/DEMOCRATS!!"
That's really all you need to know. The question is how low collectively can their moral/ethical levels sink to due to their hatred for the other side.
I mean - there IS that interview of the Trump voter stating that he didn't CARE if Russia interfered. If that's what it took to get his guy elected - that was absolutely fine with him.
I mean - there IS that interview of the Trump voter stating that he didn't CARE if Russia interfered. If that's what it took to get his guy elected - that was absolutely fine with him.
I think he speaks for many of them.
OK, but you don't impeach the president based on what one of his voters said.
What was different is a new Ukrainian president was elected - a man known for being strong against corruption, in a historically corrupt country. I think what Trump did was unseemly, but NOT illegal. Not one witness had first-hand knowledge of an unlawful act. If there was a QPQ, it was well-hidden. Folks may SUSPECT, and draw an assumption, that there was a QPQ, but we don't impeach in this country based on assumptions and rumors. The Dems have been very effective at blurring the line between proven fact and unproven rumor, and a lot of folks have bought into that. Asking for a favor is not proof of a QPQ or bribery. I don't think it looks good, and I think it's unprofessional, but that's a far cry from being illegal.
For the record, I don't hate liberals/Democrats. I agree with and support some liberal policies. I do not care for the Communists who try to disguise themselves as progressives/Democratic Socialists, however.
There are PLENTY of Democrats and Republicans who ARE good Americans. It's just unfortunate that some are stupid enough to let politicians play one group off of the other, creating divisiveness for their own self-serving and nefarious reasons.
There is no assumption. He withheld the aid, and released it only after he found it was being investigated. It wasn't "well hidden" it was obvious to anyone who isn't a Trump loyalists or hates Democrats.
Impeaching Clinton for lying about his sex life seems far more of a waste than someone trying to fiddle with our 2020 election.
When someone lies under oath, it doesn't matter what the lie was about. It is still perjury which is against the law. As is witness tampering and obstructing justice.
Adam Schiff gave his fabricated version of the phone call, IIRC prior to the inquiry vote. Then Trump released the transcript, and everyone could see that Schiff had wildly prevaricated. Incredibly, he claimed that it had been intended as "parody." There was no indication of that when he said it. Alice in Wonderland stuff.
Then in the hearings yesterday under Nadler, someone (I think Dem counsel) cited Trump's line “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing." Now that clearly was intended as parody (it was at a Trump rally), yet the Dem lawyer cites it as serious evidence.
Up is down, black is white. We truly are in Alice in Wonderland territory.
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