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It has nothing to do with propaganda or politics. If this drug is useless, then it is useless. Why calling it a propaganda just because Donald Trump has recommended it?
I think the point is that Donald should not be recommending medications and fanciful treatments on TV. He should leave that to the medical professionals. Anytime a political figure gets into the medical recommendation practice, it does become heavily politicized.
And ventilators usage is where things started as medical science didn't know better at the start, but data is accumulating and treatment protocols are rapidly evolving. That's the scientific method in action, which is as it should be.
I think the point is that Donald should not be recommending medications and fanciful treatments on TV. He should leave that to the medical professionals. Anytime a political figure gets into the medical recommendation practice, it does become heavily politicized.
And ventilators usage is where things started as medical science didn't know better at the start, but data is accumulating and treatment protocols are rapidly evolving. That's the scientific method in action, which is as it should be.
Your "kind way" of calling someone an idiot is uncalled-for. If a poster living in Orange County wants to check out the hospitals, there is no law against driving around and observing that ER parking lots are not full, or peeking through the window to see that the ER is almost empty.
There are 25 OC hospitals treating COVID-19 patients. Four is a reasonable sample. You can also, of course, check the website to see that there are only 235 COVID patients in the hospital in the whole county, and of those, only 85 are currently in the ICU. The hospitals can handle that.
Our parking lots have never been so empty, as they are since this COVID-19 crisis began. The hospital is full of COVID-19 patients, so no visitors are allowed. People cant even come into the ER with the patient. They are met outside at the car, and wheeled into the ER by Hospital staff.
Doctors that aren’t dealing with the COVID patients are not coming to the hospital. After all, what is a plastic surgeon going to do at a hospital filled with COVID patients?
We are not doing all of the services that we usually do. Routine mammograms, routine labs, routine ekgs, routine chest x rays, are not being done, so those patients aren’t coming. And all the people involved in performing the tests, and interpreting the results are not coming.
The only people left parking in the parking lots, are those of us that deal with COVID patients, the housekeeping staff, and a limited number of kitchen workers. I would say, we make up less than half of the people that come to the hospital under normal circumstances.
Last edited by AnesthesiaMD; 05-17-2020 at 10:52 AM..
We were talking about the ER in Orange County. Here, you can certainly drive right up to the ER door and look in to see if it is busy. I've done it myself (not in a COVID-related circumstance). You can observe whether cars and people are or are not briskly coming and going. It's not hard around here to confirm that ERs are not bustling with sick people. The OC website stats back that up, by the way.
Maybe people who have their feet on the ground here have a better idea of what is going on than forum posters who may live in a different state or even a different country.
But when you drove by you didn't see anything.
They aren't going to have COVID patients lined up in the ER -- that's not how it works -- lol.
You can't see behind the doors.
I've been to many ER's -- and what's going on outside has little to do with what is going on inside -- especially given new guidelines, procedures,
It is true regular ER visits are down. That's a good thing and probably a result of social distancing. Less accidents, less injuries, etc.
That does not mean there is not an impact on the resources of a hospital.
I think they have figured out that those bubble things that fit over the head work better than a ventilator, but I'm not sure how many hospitals are using those.
No. The helmet based ventilator has been shown to work better than mask ventilation. It does not do the job of a traditional ventilator. It may help to keep you off of a ventilator, as the Italians suggested, and that would be great. But in the end, if you need a ventilator, you need a ventilator.
They aren't going to have COVID patients lined up in the ER -- that's not how it works -- lol.
You can't see behind the doors.
I've been to many ER's -- and what's going on outside has little to do with what is going on inside -- especially given new guidelines, procedures,
It is true regular ER visits are down. That's a good thing and probably a result of social distancing. Less accidents, less injuries, etc.
That does not mean there is not an impact on the resources of a hospital.
Potential COVID patients are not waiting in the waiting room. That would be crazy.
They are brought directly to negative pressure isolation rooms.
The COVID crisis has also scared a lot of people away from the hospitals. So people who use the ER for frivolous purposes, are not coming anymore. And unfortunately, some patients who really SHOULD be going to the ER, are very hesitant to come.
what happens next depends on both the evolution of the pathogen and of the human response to it, both biological and social.
Honestly, at this point, the only reasonable response I can think of is to learn to live with a disease.
Projections about how COVID-19 will play out are speculative, but the end game will most likely involve a mix of everything that checked past pandemics: Continued social-control measures to buy time, new antiviral medications to ease symptoms, and a vaccine. The exact formula—how long control measures such as social distancing must stay in place, for instance—depends in large part on how strictly people obey restrictions and how effectively governments respond.
For me personally, I will follow social distancing guideline as long as I could. To each his/her own.
They aren't going to have COVID patients lined up in the ER -- that's not how it works -- lol.
You can't see behind the doors.
I've been to many ER's -- and what's going on outside has little to do with what is going on inside -- especially given new guidelines, procedures,
It is true regular ER visits are down. That's a good thing and probably a result of social distancing. Less accidents, less injuries, etc.
That does not mean there is not an impact on the resources of a hospital.
OK! I guess you are right! The 25 Orange County hospitals are all just stuffed with the total of 235 COVID patients that are currently hospitalized in the county. You should know! I am wrong, and my next-door neighbor who is a pediatric nurse at one of those hospitals and who told me that neither the ER nor the rest of the hospital is busy is also wrong. Thanks for setting us straight.
My uncle won't use a ventilator. He would choose to keep on breathing, keep on moving until he couldn't. No ventilator for him. But that is his individual choice as an ER doctor. I am pretty sure he cannot speak for everybody else, I am pretty sure he cannot speak for ALL doctors, he can only speak for himself. A CHOICE.
See, this is the problem I have with you.
You've been calling everybody who just wants to keep an open mind anti-science, truth is, most people just want to keep their options open.
You've called Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID-19 bull sh*t because this is some kind of Republican Propaganda,
W.H.Y D.O Y.O.U do that?!
Most people just want to keep their options open, no more/less. Nobody is saying the drugs are magic pills, this is why A clinical trial has begun to evaluate whether the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, given together with the antibiotic azithromycin, can prevent hospitalization and death from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).
The key thing is to figure out WHEN, How much and to whom.
It has nothing to do with propaganda or politics. If this drug is useless, then it is useless. Why calling it a propaganda just because Donald Trump has recommended it?
Hang on I wasn't calling you out at all on anything. I was talking that the ventilator was a last resort treatment and that doctors usually don't use them unless they are sure the outcome without it is going to be dead. I think you totally misread my post. It was supporting what you said about the risks of using ventilator and supporting that they are used in dire cases only.
And of course I will call out anti-science...
And ventilators aren't blue or red...
AND I called out the article where the Rpeublican politician solicited physicians to support the hydroxychloroquine as propaganda.......because it was. Not long after that whole campaign to try and support this drug treatment because the President mentioned it .......we found out that it is a very dicey treatment for many patients and was then only used in some cases.
I didn't say anything about propaganda or politics in the ventilator post.
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