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Nations won land by conquest all of the time. The concept isn't new. Some of the ancestors of the Palestinians won some of the land that they did via conquest as well undoubtedly. And when the Ottoman Empire conquered and controlled the area, I didn't hear any complaining and I hear no complaints of those in the area now for Turkey--as the primary successor state of the Ottoman Empire--to pay reparations or anything of the sort; the Ottoman Empire lost the territory to the Allies at the end of WWI, again land acquisition via conquest. Based on that notion, the Ottoman Empire "stole" the land as well. That is nonsense and is a double standard approach that people seem only to apply to Israel.
Precisely! Nations win land via conquest all the time, and for thousands of years. You never hear anyone complain about it, except for when the Jews did it.
What about how Arabs stole the land and property of Jews in countries throughout the Middle East? Close to a million of them (and their descendants are in Israel.) Yet, none of the anti-Israel posters ever complain how horrible it was for Arabs to kick out all those Jews.
Precisely! Nations win land via conquest all the time, and for thousands of years. You never hear anyone complain about it, except for when the Jews did it.
What about how Arabs stole the land and property of Jews in countries throughout the Middle East? Close to a million of them (and their descendants are in Israel.) Yet, none of the anti-Israel posters ever complain how horrible it was for Arabs to kick out all those Jews.
The issue isn’t Israel winning the land by conquest...it’s the land being occupied/controlled/settled that Israel hasn’t annexed. Golan Heights, for instance, was formally annexed and the population offered citizenship. And of course, Israel can’t afford to actually annex the entire West Bank in the same way since that would bring unreasonable numbers of non-Jews into the Jewish homelands voters, which would be tantamount to a self inflicted gunshot by Israel.
Neither side is in a position to budge on demands. Rational compromise offers have not been accepted by either side because there’s always just one more issue-water or airspace or rights to send in security forces or nonmilitarization or strategic depth or control/independence of Jerusalem or settlements or free access roads between enclaves or discontiguous territories or unconditional acceptance of Israel’s right to exist. There’s always one more thing and mealy mouthed promises of “further talks”.
Nations won land by conquest all of the time. The concept isn't new. Some of the ancestors of the Palestinians won some of the land that they did via conquest as well undoubtedly. And when the Ottoman Empire conquered and controlled the area, I didn't hear any complaining and I hear no complaints of those in the area now for Turkey--as the primary successor state of the Ottoman Empire--to pay reparations or anything of the sort; the Ottoman Empire lost the territory to the Allies at the end of WWI, again land acquisition via conquest. Based on that notion, the Ottoman Empire "stole" the land as well. That is nonsense and is a double standard approach that people seem only to apply to Israel.
So, you are not denying that the Palestinians always were there, nor the fact that land that was in their families for generations was stolen by Israel, and they have no right of return to farm it again, or live in those houses?
Israel is wrong in suppressing Palestinians. Period.
1.8 million Palestinians live in Israel they have citizenship and those of age have voting rights. They are living peacefully in Israel despite suffering oppression and discrimination
Denying the Palestinians in the West Bank citizenship and voting franchise because of their religion is wrong. That is against American values and if the Palestinians move on from statehood to a civil rights fight for citizenship and voting rights Israel will lose Americans support.
1.8 million Palestinians live in Israel they have citizenship and those of age have voting rights. They are living peacefully in Israel despite suffering oppression and discrimination
Denying the Palestinians in the West Bank citizenship and voting franchise because of their religion is wrong. That is against American values and if the Palestinians move on from statehood to a civil rights fight for citizenship and voting rights Israel will lose Americans support.
...I am not sure Israel should really care that it’s “against American values” unless it somehow damages their national interest. Israel, not America. And I think it’s maybe premature to say they should be offered citizenship until Israel commits to annexation, the normal way nations assert ownership of an area.
So, you are not denying that the Palestinians always were there, nor the fact that land that was in their families for generations was stolen by Israel, and they have no right of return to farm it again, or live in those houses?
Israel is wrong in suppressing Palestinians. Period.
The Jews were always there and have any "right" to the land as anyone else. But what right does the PLO have to the land? Last I checked, the land in question was controlled by Jordan and other Arab nations, before it was essentially annexed by Israel as the Jewish State fought of genocidal efforts to push it into the sea during several wars. It seems to me that Jordan and others should be making claims, or at least trying to work to get their people back. For the record, the Yasser Arafat was offered a Palestinian State during the Camp David summit. He refused. Instead, he orchestrated a campaign of terror against the Jewish State.
It is mind-boggling that you and others continue to ignore the law of conquest and how it has applied to the region, only pointing your anger toward the sole Jewish State in the region. Again, you talk about stolen land and no right of return--again, singling out Israel--yet consciously continue to ignore that Egypt plays a direct role in this, too, via the Gaza blockade. But since they aren't Israel, I guess you won't criticize them?
The Jews were always there and have any "right" to the land as anyone else. But what right does the PLO have to the land? Last I checked, the land in question was controlled by Jordan and other Arab nations, before it was essentially annexed by Israel as the Jewish State fought of genocidal efforts to push it into the sea during several wars. It seems to me that Jordan and others should be making claims, or at least trying to work to get their people back. For the record, the Yasser Arafat was offered a Palestinian State during the Camp David summit. He refused. Instead, he orchestrated a campaign of terror against the Jewish State.
It is mind-boggling that you and others continue to ignore the law of conquest and how it has applied to the region, only pointing your anger toward the sole Jewish State in the region. Again, you talk about stolen land and no right of return--again, singling out Israel--yet consciously continue to ignore that Egypt plays a direct role in this, too, via the Gaza blockade. But since they aren't Israel, I guess you won't criticize them?
First of all, Palestinians are not Arabs (most of them). They've been there since before David was a king.
You need to check again, as it is the invader and settler Israeli's who control the areas. The settlers have no right to steal the land from the indigenous people. None.
First of all, Palestinians are not Arabs (most of them). They've been there since before David was a king.
You need to check again, as it is the invader and settler Israeli's who control the areas. The settlers have no right to steal the land from the indigenous people. None.
You are somehow tying Israel's birthright citizenship for Jews, to the settlements?
I think there are more life-long Israeli citizens moving to the settlements than new immigrants, so I don't understand why you are connecting the two.
First of all, Palestinians are not Arabs (most of them). They've been there since before David was a king.
You need to check again, as it is the invader and settler Israeli's who control the areas. The settlers have no right to steal the land from the indigenous people. None.
Israel captured the West Bank and Gaza (plus the Golan Heights and Sinai Peninsula) in the six-day defensive war with surrounding Arab nations and Israeli settlers starting moving into those areas. In 2005, Israel forceably removed the settlers from Gaza in a land for peace deal. No more Israelis in Gaza. And then what happened? Instead of getting peace, Hamas started using Gaza a launch pad for missiles into Israel.
And now you expect Israel to pull the settlers out of the West Bank? An area that protrudes into Israel just 7 miles from Tel Aviv? So they can blow up the Capitol of Israel?
Maybe if the Palestinians stopped firing missiles from Gaza into Israel, they might have a better case. But for now, Israel would be nuts to do that. How could anyone think otherwise?
First of all, Palestinians are not Arabs (most of them). They've been there since before David was a king.
You need to check again, as it is the invader and settler Israeli's who control the areas. The settlers have no right to steal the land from the indigenous people. None.
I’m really surprised. Are you a Palestinian? If not, why do you speak in their name?
Palestinians DEFINE THEMSELVES AS ARABS! They speak Arabic. Their religion was born in the Arab peninsula. Their culture and history are Arabic. It’s the way they define themselves, not you and I. Now, after 1500 years, their supporters have second thoughts…Maybe they are Elemites? Or perhaps Sumerians? What about Akkadians?
Last edited by oberon_1; 06-07-2021 at 04:44 PM..
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