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Old 06-08-2021, 12:14 PM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,508,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
That would be one solution. Another one would be to relocate all Israelis to New Jersey and let the Palestinians have Palestine. That would be more likely to be a permanent peace than your idea.

Plus I don't get why anyone wants to live in that godforsaken desert in the first place. The biggest "lake" is saltier than Great Salt Lake.
Why don’t we move all the Palestinians to New Jersey and let the Israelis have Israel? They’ve proven they can do wonders with arrid useless land. Plus, there wouldn’t be even one Jewish-majority country in the world! There are enough antisemitic Muslim-majority countries as it is; why create one more?

Also, your suggestion to relocate the Israelis to NJ and give all of Israel to the terrorist-led Palestinians is exactly what Hamas wants: to wipe out the existence of Israel. Why are liberals supporting the destruction of Israel?
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Old 06-08-2021, 12:15 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,033 posts, read 44,853,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
What about the Palestinians driven out of their homes and off their land in the late 1940's? They were there first. How were they responsible for any of that? They lived there for millennia, and certainly didn't cause the settler invasion from Europe and elsewhere, did they?
Your beef is with the UK, not Israel. The UK was in control of the land at that time.
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Old 06-08-2021, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,867 posts, read 25,161,984 times
Reputation: 19091
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
However, currently you have millions of Palestinians disinfranchised of real citizenship through no fault of their own. After all... they've always were there, unlike the settlers who took over what is now Israel.
There's really no meaning to Palestinian citizenship as it's just a dead culture having spend most of the last 3,500 years being conquered by some empire or another, be in the Byzantine, Ottoman, Babylonian, Macedonian, British, Egyptian, Syrian, Persian or what have you. It's the same same dead culture and dead religion for both Israel and Palestine. Ancestry goes back to the Canaan in the bronze age which was similar to the Greek city states. The Canaan culture was much short lived though. It formed much later than the Greek culture and was conquered much earlier. Greece retained enough of its cultural identity to eventually overthrow its succession of conquering empires and gain back independence. The Canaan though, they really don't. Even when the British empire handed it back to them, the difference between the various factions of the Canaan (the modern day Israelis and Palestinians) have really nothing in common anymore. Plus you have the external threats from other larger countries that all view the area as part of their domain since at one time or another Egypt, Syria, Jordan all held what is now Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian "culture" is an evolving fabrication itself, let alone any concept of Palestinian citizenship which is just entirely an artificial creation from whole cloth. You might as well be talking about the Iroquois Nation overthrowing the United States government when you talk about Palestinian citizenship. I guess it's not really any fault of the Iroquois either that they got conquered and their culture is much less dead than the Canaan culture is. Even among itself "Palestine" is composed of irreconcilable factions with currently Hamas and Fatah existing in a state of hostility with one another. Were it not for have a common foe they're more interested in attacking then each other, they'd be fighting amongst themselves over which faction ruled over Palestine, which is really rather silly as without Israel being propped up by the Western world "Palestine" would be wiped off the map in no time and gobbled up by Egypt, Syria, or Jordan anyway.
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Old 06-08-2021, 12:21 PM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,508,176 times
Reputation: 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
What about the Palestinians driven out of their homes and off their land in the late 1940's? They were there first. How were they responsible for any of that? They lived there for millennia, and certainly didn't cause the settler invasion from Europe and elsewhere, did they?
They got good money for their arid, worthless land - 10x what it was worth. OTOH, nearly a million Jews were driven from their homes in Arab countries - and the Arabs took all their property, leaving the Jews penniless. The anti-Israel contingent never criticizes that. For some reason, they only criticize the Jews.
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Old 06-08-2021, 12:26 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,033 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
There's really no meaning to Palestinian citizenship as it's just a dead culture having spend most of the last 3,500 years being conquered by some empire or another, be in the Byzantine, Ottoman, Babylonian, Macedonian, British, Egyptian, Syrian, Persian or what have you. It's the same same dead culture and dead religion for both Israel and Palestine. Ancestry goes back to the Canaan in the bronze age which was similar to the Greek city states. The Canaan culture was much short lived though. It formed much later than the Greek culture and was conquered much earlier. Greece retained enough of its cultural identity to eventually overthrow its succession of conquering empires and gain back independence. The Canaan though, they really don't. Even when the British empire handed it back to them, the difference between the various factions of the Canaan (the modern day Israelis and Palestinians) have really nothing in common anymore. Plus you have the external threats from other larger countries that all view the area as part of their domain since at one time or another Egypt, Syria, Jordan all held what is now Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian "culture" is an evolving fabrication itself, let alone any concept of Palestinian citizenship which is just entirely an artificial creation from whole cloth. You might as well be talking about the Iroquois Nation overthrowing the United States government when you talk about Palestinian citizenship. I guess it's not really any fault of the Iroquois either that they got conquered and their culture is much less dead than the Canaan culture is.
Correct. There is no such thing as Palestinian citizenship as there is no such thing as Palestine as an independent sovereign country.
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Old 06-08-2021, 12:50 PM
 
10,800 posts, read 3,597,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Your beef is with the UK, not Israel. The UK was in control of the land at that time.
The settlers were not from the UK (perhaps some of them were). They moved there, and it was the country of Israel that forced the Palestinians out.

Learn your history.
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Old 06-08-2021, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,867 posts, read 25,161,984 times
Reputation: 19091
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Correct. There is no such thing as Palestinian citizenship as there is no such thing as Palestine as an independent sovereign country.
At least not yet, probably never. Israel was created from nothing at the same time as Palestine. Israel has carved out a national identity of sorts, although there too being such an infantile construct there's a lot of flux. I don't see Israel having a civil war and splitting up between the Fikud and Lapid coalition. Israel has enough of an identity at this point that the political disagreement is unlikely to end up actually dividing the country.
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Old 06-08-2021, 01:00 PM
 
10,800 posts, read 3,597,574 times
Reputation: 5951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
They got good money for their arid, worthless land - 10x what it was worth. OTOH, nearly a million Jews were driven from their homes in Arab countries - and the Arabs took all their property, leaving the Jews penniless. The anti-Israel contingent never criticizes that. For some reason, they only criticize the Jews.
Your assertion they got "good money" for the land is not factual. Don't give us the whataboutism, that does not make it right what the settlers did to the Palestinians.

The Palestinians were driven from their homes and lands. The 1948 resolution of the UN called for the Palestinians to have a right of return, but Israel passed laws not allowing Palestinians to return NOR get compensation for the stolen lands.

The Nakba was as vicious as any pogroms the Jewish people suffered for centuries, except this time, rather than being the victims of atrocities, the Jewish state was the perpetrator.

Learn your history, and stop seeing it through rose colored glasses.
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Old 06-08-2021, 01:16 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,033 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13716
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
The settlers were not from the UK (perhaps some of them were). They moved there, and it was the country of Israel that forced the Palestinians out.

Learn your history.
No. The UK determined the land, which they controlled, would be used to establish the independent sovereign nation of Israel. The Balfour Declaration.

As "Palestine" (no such independent sovereign nation exists) did not then or ever own or control that land, so-called Palestinians have no say in the matter.
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Old 06-08-2021, 01:22 PM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,508,176 times
Reputation: 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
Your assertion they got "good money" for the land is not factual. Don't give us the whataboutism, that does not make it right what the settlers did to the Palestinians.

The Palestinians were driven from their homes and lands. The 1948 resolution of the UN called for the Palestinians to have a right of return, but Israel passed laws not allowing Palestinians to return NOR get compensation for the stolen lands.

The Nakba was as vicious as any pogroms the Jewish people suffered for centuries, except this time, rather than being the victims of atrocities, the Jewish state was the perpetrator.

Learn your history, and stop seeing it through rose colored glasses.
And YOU stop ignoring that multiple Arab countries drove nearly a million Jews from their homes and lands - and left them penniless and in exile. Your insistence of condemning ONLY Israel, while refusing to acknowledge that the Muslims did worse to the Jews in their countries, speaks volumes.

The State Department defined that type of double standard as antisemitic.
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